Prices of pups abroad and at home
- Thread starter Wolverine
- Start date
Lee if your dog is that good and all health tests passed why dont the KBGS in germany want to use her in the gene pool with all her puppies going back to Europe
the standard that my dog is at is the standard breeding requirement within the KBGS.
I could enter the breed plan next year if I wanted to, the option is only ans email away.
also it’s my choice to breed or not.
Wolverine
Well-Known Member
They do.....
I’m out just now but will explain a few things later.
Bavarianbrit......Soonwald Hauptprüfung is organised by close friends of mine and is where myself and my Pascha did our main test.
I have been a trainee judge with René and know him very well.Myself and René judged a very good team that did 2 1st Preis in one morning.
The rifle I used on my Hauptprüfung belonged to the organiser of this event.
René is a good guy.
His close friend was my judge on my main test,Hans Reinert.Hans also wrote a book alongside Bernd Krewer,Bernd just passed away last month.
All the best
George
mereside
Well-Known Member
I know this was directed to lee but for me I want to breed from my HS as long as bloods and hips come back ok which I don’t doubt and for me the reasons are to keep this line going, I will keep a pup on and carry on , she has huge drive and ability and to Keith I actually think I have the perfect dog she is easy to read, works the line perfect and she is sharp, very fast and got top marks in her conformation so for me a perfect dog to breed with and this also means I can start from birth with the next generation and do what my friends did with Theklas mother, I also think that having got to a standard and been asked to breed and put pups back to Europe we have truly done the same as any other from abroad and are no different, for me that is an honour to put back into what I believe in, regards Wayne
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levigsp
Well-Known Member
Well said.Couldn't agree with you more wully matey
I had a thread running a while ago regarding the "greeders" breeding dogs without any thought other than the money they would make,
I can't for the life of me think why this ridiculous price rise has occurred since lockdown other than folk not being at work, nice weather, only allowed to do certain activities initially ie.walking so thought it would be great to have a dog, as I said in my thread before I'm dreading winter as I reckon the dog shelters will be inundated.
As some of you know I've just imported a 100% blue blooded GSP from slovenia and when I collected the pup she made me a meal an we chatted about many GSP/dog things, and one was how stupid the price in the UK has gone and her opinion was it can only be a bad thing for the breeds due to spurious breeding.
My pup as I've said has a pedigree of impeccable standing with all the dogs listed having passed hunting exams to prove they are worthy of breeding from. The family have bred only GSPs for 50 years.
My pup needed to be kept for 15 weeks all appropriate inoculations done export paperwork worming and all the other hassles of having pups, the breeder socialsed the pup properly an gave her many life experiences at the correct times as puppies have doors in there minds that need opening at correct times.
They vet all the puppies new owners and won't allow one to go unless it's to a working home.
AN ALL THIS FOR WAY LESS THAN A GRAND !!!!
Unfortunately I know of very few people in this country that take all this care an attention to detail in puppy rearing an that's why dog breeds in the UK are screwed.
Cheers for reading this far
Jimmy
levigsp
Well-Known Member
Great Post.
levigsp
Well-Known Member
One or two points the UK kennel club is about as useful as a sack full of Black rats. I have three kennel club pedigrees for the same dog! each was sent out incorrect and a phone call got another sent out, with the kennel club not interested in their mistake or what happens to the pedigree! WHAT if i used one to sell an unrelated dog? Epilepsy is rife in some breeds, as are other diseases, the UK KC is not interested in sorting the problem. The kennel club has issued working certs for GSP dogs, that have gone on to win at crufts, yet they have NEVER worked live quarry in their life. At least on the European mainland you should not have these issues with working dogs.,
Then I can only see one elite, silo gene pool that will get smaller, over the years.
mereside
Well-Known Member
The very same society we are in and where our dogs training and testing comes from which also are in theISHVHere is the original article of my pals dog testing day. On 21st March 2012.
Auf der Krankfährte - Such verwundt!
Deutsche Jagdzeitung - das erfrischend andere Jagdmagazin für den praxisorientierten Jäger mit spannenden Jagdfilmen auf Pareygo.dedjz.de
Here below I have translated the German text as best as I could.
He is BTW located near Saarlouis on the German French border and was my best jagdschein teacher in 1998-9 and we became very good pals.
Looking for– wounded game!
They have their own dog cemetery, state-owned dogs and the abolition of territorial hunting boundaries: tracking work with the Hanoverian bloodhound is a supreme discipline. DJZ hunting magazine accompanied one of the "tracking detectives" on his main test in the Soonwald forest.
The meeting point is a parking lot in the middle of the Hunsrück region. The driven hunt is over in 15 minutes. A report should be made for wounded game. That’s how long there’s coffee and cake left. The mood is a bit tense. Everyone knows: It is important to assess the shot area and the severity of the injury in the shortest possible time in order to then distribute the work for the test dog aspirants.
Enigmatic
In theory, everything is very clear. But in the practice it looks very different:
Case 1: A sow was shot in the neighboring district that had already been previously shot. The shooter of the first round cannot be determined.
Case 2: A calf was shot at, but has died. Later it turns out that two shooters had already spoken of it as having been wounded, but they couldn't shoot because there was no backstop. A special kind of puzzle.
Main exam
The difficulty of this day: Finding a search that is sufficient for an exam assessment. You have to search for at least 400 meters. If there is a hunt afterwards, the dog can also be judged with regard to the sound and location of the game.
The search for the calf (case 2) was successfully completed by René Wiese (44) (now he is over 50) with his male dog “Delf vom Ibengarten”, but lasted only 100 meters. Good for the piece, bad for the team. Too short for an exam assessment. Mr Wiese has been available on call for a main test since 2009. However, a team of auditors would also have to arrive. To this day, it has failed to meet both points.
Herr Wiese has now made around 300 searches with his dog. In his opinion, 25 to 35 difficult tracking jobs are necessary before a main test should be performed. That is why he registered for the main exam of the Hirschmann club in the Soonwald club on November 12th. But, it actually went differently: He should act as support for the examinees in case control searches or simple death searches are pending. But then it became his own test.
The Hirschmann Association has guaranteed enough dogs with guides for this weekend. If you want a test for a dog, and the handler is convinced that it can be an examination candidate, you swap. The exam candidate takes over. It is therefore not surprising that a total of 11 tracking dog teams are on site on this day. The course of the two simultaneous driven hunts cannot be calculated.
Long search
Delf vom Ibengarten is already in his 7th year. This is actually a very old age for a test, but the dog must have the experience to be able to cope with the test conditions. From a breeding point of view, it would make more sense if the dogs came to the test much earlier, for example in their fourth year. However, since the dogs have to be judged in practice during a search, this is very difficult to plan.
The best prerequisites for an exam-relevant search is a high running shot. The wounded game usually flees a few hundred meters before it goes into the wound bed. If the dog finds the piece, pointing and barking is usually necessary. With such a search, the entire range of abilities can be assessed.
René Wiese was already looking with Delf yesterday. A sow was shot at on a driven hunt. Only the group leader was available as a contact person. He could only say what the wild species was, nothing more. The shooter had already left.
During the preliminary search, Delf turned off at once after about 40 meters. The first drop of blood after 50 meters. Plenty of blood over the next 500 meters. But after almost two kilometers, the search leader had to break off because it was getting dark. No wound bed until then. The hit position remains a mystery. Probably a graze shot on the hip.
Odyssey
After the rain during the night, stalking signs are no longer to be expected. Even so, early in the morning the search team is back at the point where it left off yesterday. Before that, she had wandered ten kilometers through forest paths through the bush. There was no local helper there yesterday. Today it is difficult to explain to the locals where this point is.
After 1.5 hours the test group is at the finish and the male Delf is back at the beginning of a difficult search. Like yesterday, he works very calmly and concentrates on the wound track. There are hardly any confirmations for his guide any more, only now and then a stamp which the experts read as a path to wound bed. The layman hardly recognizes this without explanation. There is no more blood. The wound has probably already closed up.
After it went steeply down the mountain, a gate with good cover gives hope. The sow could be stuck here. Suddenly movement. The examiners have problems sinking deeper into the wet ground following the dog and handler. Then cracks and rushes. Delf stays on the track with his nose down. The old animal and the calf have fled.
After 4.5 kilometers of searching over two days, this is the end. No bed of wounds on the entire route. Only once did the piece briefly give way before a path. This sow is not to be found, the dog handler and the examiner agree.
The way back to the car is long. It goes mountain up, mountain down. Thanks to modern GPS technology from those familiar with the area, the entire search is recorded. No wandering around like in the morning. Back in the search bar, there is a stew for refreshment. After the wet bush and the exertion, just the thing. Unfortunately, these efforts were not rewarded: neither an animal found nor an examination award.
Passed
But the search for a red calf turns out to be a suitable test piece. The end is already known because it was the animal already found (case 2). Only the way was longer, as the dog was placed 1.2 kilometers away at the point of the first hit. The two-day search for the sow is of course taken into account by the judges as well as a subsequent search for a sow over a further 2 days.
Working on 3 pieces and 10 kilometers of searching over 4 days were assessed:
René Wiese passed the main test with his male Delf.
Note: You can find his contact on the homepage of the Hirschmann Association
Hirschmann | Home For a list of bloodhound handlers.
mereside
Well-Known Member
Sorry Keith I don’t agree, the only reason dogs out with the Verein or ishv Are dogs that never made a standard and we’re not meant for breeding and people took them and then bred them for there own gains, regards Wayne
levigsp
Well-Known Member
One or two points the UK kennel club is about as useful as a sack full of Black rats. I have three kennel club pedigrees for the same dog! each was sent out incorrect and a phone call got another sent out, with the kennel club not interested in their mistake or what happens to the pedigree! WHAT if i used one to sell an unrelated dog? Epilepsy is rife in some breeds, as are other diseases, the UK KC is not interested in sorting the problem. The kennel club has issued working certs for GSP dogs, that have gone on to win at crufts, yet they have NEVER worked live quarry in their life. At least on the European mainland you should not have these issues with working dogs.,
Perhaps because unlike GSPs and teckels bred in some countries that have to have all the tests, be certified by a vet at mating, whelping and weaning and in-between times as well, BMH breeders dont need to!
mereside
Well-Known Member
ISHV Bayerischer Gebirgsschweißhund are the original breed but the Bavarian now in the UK has been heavily line bred or even crossed, the two breeds have stayed very very close to the original matings, the dogs in books of old show the early dogs and they are almost identical to now within ISHV, the UK type dog has been heavily influenced by Polish stock and talking to the Polish breed master and looking through records there were dogs imported with serious health issues to the UK and they are known to have caused issues.
There are also dogs with a lot of issues from Slovakia as well as a lot of other countries with issues.
I hope I am wrong. This has certainly been an interesting thread. The principles that you speak of are very admirable.
As far as breed improvement is concerned I will always find it incongruent that the very best quality stock cannot be used for the good of the breed.
Their pedigree errors, even the slightest spelling mistake can then make their 'Mate Select' system as good as useless.
Bavarianbrit
Well-Known Member
I was on Renés SfA stand at IWA and Dortmund for a few years helping him out, so we spent a lot of time talking over the methods and aims of dog breeding/work, sadly I will never have my own dog as I was always on the road working away and the wife will not condone having one due to that, now at 70 y/o the train has left the station for me.
Weidmannsheil Martin
Just out of curiosity
Wayne you state
The Breeds have been going for 120 yr
Using bloodlines from 13 country's
So how diluted are the bloodlines in your German society There will be only so many good dogs to breed off in Europe before you would have to out cross to a dog or bitch with a health problem before having to put fresh blood in the gene pool . Because small gene pools of healthy animals dont last for ever with out getting defects somewhere along the line
That’s why there is a breed master in all of the 13 countries with big black breed books, so we mere members don’t have to think of such things, they do all the hard work!
it is a great thing to be able to trace your dog all the way back over 100 years.
So many breeds have been cocked up by people doing what the think is best.
you only have to look at the BGS in the UK for a Start.
then ask the question why so many are seeking dogs from the continent!
Leec6.5 thank you for your reply.
13 breed masters with black books 120 years of information
Your gene pool is still getting smaller . if not already health issues will happen .
But being an association it will be kept under the radar . That's my honest opinion
Lee your not breeding your quality bitch
Wayne is breeding his quality bitch
But what about the dogs in the group are they not
good enough quality to go back to Europe to breed off
It's not just breeders over here that are causing problems with breeds . All over Europe some breeders just breed dogs selling them at €300 a pup just with a pet passport to sell to a hunter
No care of breeding and related
Why do stalkers want to go to Europe for dogs.
1. They want a dog that is not related to breed lines over here. Which are bred by pet breeders
2. They want a breed of dog that suits them
Size. colour temperament. A dog were they
have spent time studying it. Talking to breeders
going to watch how they work them here and in Europe . A dog that they will put time into
3 some dont want a BMH or HS that UKSHA offer
If they join . As they dont want to be part of an association
13 breed masters with black books 120 years of information
Your gene pool is still getting smaller . if not already health issues will happen .
But being an association it will be kept under the radar . That's my honest opinion
Lee your not breeding your quality bitch
Wayne is breeding his quality bitch
But what about the dogs in the group are they not
good enough quality to go back to Europe to breed off
It's not just breeders over here that are causing problems with breeds . All over Europe some breeders just breed dogs selling them at €300 a pup just with a pet passport to sell to a hunter
No care of breeding and related
Why do stalkers want to go to Europe for dogs.
1. They want a dog that is not related to breed lines over here. Which are bred by pet breeders
2. They want a breed of dog that suits them
Size. colour temperament. A dog were they
have spent time studying it. Talking to breeders
going to watch how they work them here and in Europe . A dog that they will put time into
3 some dont want a BMH or HS that UKSHA offer
If they join . As they dont want to be part of an association
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