"Problems" shooting foxes around semi urban farms/smallholdings

[Warbucks]

Hi everyone.
Over the last 5 years through personal recommendations i have been asked to shoot foxes that have been causing problems on four semi urban farms/smallholdings, two of these's permission's over 6-12 months (after 50 and 32 foxes shot) i have lost the permissions, reason for one " ill going to have to stop you till after lambing" second one "till after sheep dogs has had her pups and sold" ---this latter reason i think is genuine, not the first one, over 12 months has now gone by without them asking me back.
One of the two semi urban permissions that iv'e still got i do know that the people from the local houses have been leaning on the farmer to try to get to not have the foxes shot, the farmer has told me this but said you carry on as they are causing me genuine problems.
I always try to be as quiet and discrete as is possible but if people don't want the foxes shooting IMO they can tell lie's and do dirty tricks.

I would like to ask the membership on here about their experiences on similar and or if they would look out for foxing work like this because of the above problems.

Dave (warbucks)

 

[Dalua]

Doesn't sound like you had much of a problem shooting them, to be fair.
The problem you have seem to be that permission to shoot them has been withdrawn - which I suppose is always the prerogative of the permission-giver, regardless of whether that person's reason, or reasoning, is to your liking.

Not sure where the 'lies and dirty tricks' are in this story - but if there's any hope at all of getting the ground back I think I'd be gently keeping in touch with the people who have withdrawn permission to see how things are going...

 

[long_range_rob]

Using thermal and NV I’ve shot several on land backing on to houses. No one even notices. Are you lamping, calling or shooting in daylight? I’ve found discretion is king. If you can get close the CCI Segmented hollow point 22LR works extremely well on Charlie

 

[Klenchblaize]

If you can get close the CCI Segmented hollow point 22LR works extremely well on Charlie.

Only problem with that approach is there are so many shooters who simply must be seen to deploy their tacticool 600 yard fox slayer with £2k twiddly of knob scope, and of the Creedmoor or some such street cred’ chambering, so they can big-it-up on Facebook and Pigeon Watch.
K

 

[Overlay]

Hi Dave
What calibre are you using and mod, noise can be an issue in some areas, but depending on location and distance there are many less noisy calibres I use a 22 rimmy 50 yds head shot , 22 Wmr 70 yds head shot and 22 hornet 100 yds H& L very effective, 204 and deuce as far as you like, just get yourself amongst them and lay up and gauge your distance to calibre, try and work with the farmer.
Sometimes it's difficult particularly lambing time, one thing I try to do is to watch the ground couple of months before and whip out as many as possible prior to lambing or the birds going in some farmers or smallholders just say get on with I don't want any losses others get concerned as it's the most important part of the year for them, just keep talking and knock the foxes off quietly in the background
The rimmy and WMR hold to the distances and clear head shots and you won't go wrong, just sitting out and watching will get you on them to enable a clean kill at shorter ranges and hopefully sort the guys fox problem out. I find a quiet lay up shows you the way

Only thing I do is to constantly check on Zero on all of the rifles, you need to be pin point sure on your rifle accuracy

 

[Warbucks]

All of the four permission in my opening post are shot at night i either spot with thermal or the red torch and shoot with n/v depending on the situation, i use the quietest of my two centre fire and try to be finished by 12pm although at the moment that doesn't give you much shooting time.
As a minimum of 30 foxes have been shot at every one of the four permissions a .22lr just wouldn't get the numbers.
Seen as i'm often there 3 nights a week my vehicle does get spotted.
Some of the houses do like the foxes, and feed them so don't need much of an excuse to encourage the farmer to get you stopped.
The lie's and dirty tricks has come from other semi urban area's like been parking my vehicle 3 night a week same place across from a row of houses shooting foxes for over 8 years to have one of the house holders call it in to the police ----all the police patrol vehicles that go past know my vehicle and what i'm doing (some have stopped to look through the roof mounted remote controlled cctv).
Don't get me wrong i understand not everyone want vermin being shot, and being being swore at goes with the job.

Dave (warbucks)

 

[Bo Diddley]

Seems like you were a bit too obvious. and if they are used to being baited with feed, you could surely have baited them into rimfire range and nobody would have been any the wiser. Shame to lose a couple of good permissions, but fingers crossed you may get them back at some point!

 

[Klenchblaize]

It’s a strange ol’ world when you’re engaged to do job that subsequently you do well and then get punished for your success.

And the best any of us can advise is to hone one’s ability to pass undetected by hiding in the shadows.

K

 

[Overlay]

KB
wouldn’t say it’s hiding in the shadows, obviously there are 3rd parties involved which for whatever reason don’t either like foxes being managed or the noise generated, anyone can object and farmers or smallholders want a quiet life as much as anyone else

Change of tactics, bait points, times, calibres, communication and re directing the quarry could be beneficial in keeping numbers down which hopefully would allow the OP to keep other ground and reduce any complaints

head in the sand approach won’t cut it

The alternative would be to give in and give it a miss altogether,

not an alternative that I would consider, better to re work what you’ve got and make it a success

 

[Warrener]

This is always an issue when you have a local resident who does not like you shooting the foxes. It can quite often become an obsession to get you stopped (in their eyes saving little foxy) If you are close to houses not owned by the land owner my advice is do not visit too often. and vary your time and parking spot. think about arriving after dark rather than before.

 

[User00036]

2am with a moderator, especially if the wind is right, shouldn't cause anyone to wake up. On a quiet night I can hear a large unmoderated centre fire a mile away.

 

[Big Buff]

Hi Dave
What calibre are you using and mod, noise can be an issue in some areas, but depending on location and distance there are many less noisy calibres I use a 22 rimmy 50 yds head shot , 22 Wmr 70 yds head shot and 22 hornet 100 yds H& L very effective, 204 and deuce as far as you like, just get yourself amongst them and lay up and gauge your distance to calibre, try and work with the farmer.
Sometimes it's difficult particularly lambing time, one thing I try to do is to watch the ground couple of months before and whip out as many as possible prior to lambing or the birds going in some farmers or smallholders just say get on with I don't want any losses others get concerned as it's the most important part of the year for them, just keep talking and knock the foxes off quietly in the background
The rimmy and WMR hold to the distances and clear head shots and you won't go wrong, just sitting out and watching will get you on them to enable a clean kill at shorter ranges and hopefully sort the guys fox problem out. I find a quiet lay up shows you the way

Only thing I do is to constantly check on Zero on all of the rifles, you need to be pin point sure on your rifle accuracy

Agree 100% on your ranges for the various rimmers I use the same approx ranges for my WMR and HMR but always always use the LR when discretion is the key word …. I taken many foxes with the humble LR and a good moddy over the years but almost always at only 40-50 yards and even much less where mobile wielding urban ‘magpies’ are in earshot

 

[jall55]

Hi everyone.
Over the last 5 years through personal recommendations i have been asked to shoot foxes that have been causing problems on four semi urban farms/smallholdings, two of these's permission's over 6-12 months (after 50 and 32 foxes shot) i have lost the permissions, reason for one " ill going to have to stop you till after lambing" second one "till after sheep dogs has had her pups and sold" ---this latter reason i think is genuine, not the first one, over 12 months has now gone by without them asking me back.
One of the two semi urban permissions that iv'e still got i do know that the people from the local houses have been leaning on the farmer to try to get to not have the foxes shot, the farmer has told me this but said you carry on as they are causing me genuine problems.
I always try to be as quiet and discrete as is possible but if people don't want the foxes shooting IMO they can tell lie's and do dirty tricks.

I would like to ask the membership on here about their experiences on similar and or if they would look out for foxing work like this because of the above problems.

Dave (warbucks)

Dave
I think by the sounds of it you have done a good job
I would just have a sit down with the farmer/s and discuss any issues

 

[finnbear270]

Been there, got the T shirt. Try a mix of cage trapping / .22 Short., diffent transport, getting dropped off.

 

[Tim.243]

All of the four permission in my opening post are shot at night i either spot with thermal or the red torch and shoot with n/v depending on the situation, i use the quietest of my two centre fire and try to be finished by 12pm although at the moment that doesn't give you much shooting time.
As a minimum of 30 foxes have been shot at every one of the four permissions a .22lr just wouldn't get the numbers.
Seen as i'm often there 3 nights a week my vehicle does get spotted.
Some of the houses do like the foxes, and feed them so don't need much of an excuse to encourage the farmer to get you stopped.
The lie's and dirty tricks has come from other semi urban area's like been parking my vehicle 3 night a week same place across from a row of houses shooting foxes for over 8 years to have one of the house holders call it in to the police ----all the police patrol vehicles that go past know my vehicle and what i'm doing (some have stopped to look through the roof mounted remote controlled cctv).
Don't get me wrong i understand not everyone want vermin being shot, and being being swore at goes with the job.

Dave (warbucks)

I would start looking for some other ground (ask your farmer friend) I binned a local farm as they rented out their sheds for turkeys with the turkey farmers fox shooter turning up. It was not going to work as I got some feed back from other people what he was like. Worked out well as the farmer bought 150 acres 400 yards down the road with good pigeon shooting foxes and muntjac..

A 500 acre farm I shoot foxes muntjac also Fallow had a local women complain her dog ate some gralloch which was 200 yards off the foot path...he moaned at me so I left him be until (6 months) later he called asking If I had time to come over? What abt Mrs X Just carry on as before if you don't mind please.

If you are good at what you do then it will come back.

The only thing is I would say is, not saying you do but don't dress up in full camo black ski mask (as some do) long lace up boots as it makes you a visual target in an urban area.

 

[Heym SR20]

One thing the farming / shooting / rural community has never been good at is interfacing with the local urban community.

If I was sleeping knowing I had to get up at 5am to catch a train to go to work and there is somebody driving around on a quad bike at 2am I would be pretty irritated.

However if I knew that person was Fred the local keeper and I had a joint of venison in the fridge for dinner tomorrow night that I bought from the local farm, and that controlling the foxes will improve local wildlife etc etc I would just roll over and go back to sleep rather than picking up the telephone and calling the police.

The days of rural areas being a thriving local economy are sadly long gone. Most living in rural areas are now doing urban type jobs and villages are dormitories for local towns and cities. But most choosing to live in the countryside want to be in the countryside- so for that matter do many of us who live in the cities - and actually want to understand what goes on.

There is a massive PR job to be done. I have friends In Germany who just laugh at the problems we have. Their countryside is littered with housing - lots of ribbon development etc.

They solve the problem very simply. Couple of times a year the local syndicate puts on a barbecue for local community including the farmers and local village. And the local butcher takes all the venison and wild boar - the shoot is part of the community and everybody knows whats involved.

Yes there are nutters - there always are, but they are the exception.

 

[Bowland blades]

Ah , i remember semi urban Foxing on farms ! very glad i am well away from it now . Most farmers are polite to the Neighbours but then totally ignore them thank goodness.
If 22 rf isnt enough get a 22 or perhaps 17 hornet and put a proper moderator on it not one of these newer mini ones (internal volume matters ) I can shoot some 30 yards from the kitchen window and folks do not hear gunshots inside with mine 45 grain bullet 2800 fps MAE scout moderator .
when a farm asks you to stop for a period , you get back to them not the other way around . On a working farm there are always more things to do in a day then can get done. Its the most pressing things that get sorted and phoning your shooting man isnt high priority ( unless its a dog ripping into a field of pregnant ewes , then it can come anytime night or day ).
drop in or call on the phone

 

[Klenchblaize]

The only thing I would say is don't dress up in full camo, black ski mask (as some do) and long lace up boots as it makes you a visual target in an urban area.

I’ve got this well covered but will review footwear:

K

 

[enfieldspares]

A solution that would however cost the farmer is to cage trap and then dispatch.

 

[Warbucks]

A big thanks to everyone that have contributed to this thread (glad i started it now).
Iv'e been doing pest control 20 years, foxes 15 years, what iv'e found is farmer/land owners because there not about in the hours of darkness, they just dont know what numbers of foxes are about.
My newest permission (one of the four above) i was told there is at least 5 foxes about, 8 weeks later iv'e now shot 32 there so i suppose for the farmer the job will take longer than they thought as they dont realise the high number that can be about.
Eventually the numbers do dry up then it is a maintenance job of maybe one visit every three weeks ore so.
Iv'e lost a few permissions over the years, usually change of ownership/management or get a new gamekeeper will ofter cause this, irrespective of how good a job you have done, -----suppose you've got to be thick skinned with this game.

Dave (warbucks)