Range usage

[Longstrider]

Not sure where to put this but I guess here is as good as anywhere ...

I often see mention on the forum of guys using various Rifle Ranges to zero their kit, and these posts are sometimes accompanied by others complaining about the price of range use etc and it has set me wondering ..
Why do you use a range ? Most of us have the means to accuartely measure off 100yds, 200yds or whatever on our permissions. A plastic garden chair can be had for a couple of quid (if you pay over the odds ) at a car boot sale, and a suitable rest, or even a bench, is easily sorted.
Last time I shot a centrefire on a range was as a kid when I was taken for an assessment. Everything else I do on my permissions. I have visible but discrete markers out from regular 'sit-n-wait' spots at 100, 150 and, where needed 200yds. Zeroing is done early and checked regularly as I have a number of places I can check the accuracy of the rifle at 100yds in a number of locations.
I can appreciate that for some a 'Range Day' is a chance to catch up with mates and share more than the shooting, but I just don't really understand the need for a dedicated range for anything other than target competitions and practice for same.
As for complaining that this or that range charges too much per hour just baffles me .. I live about 25 miles from a well known and relatively new rifle range but I'd reckon the drive there would take a ruddy-sight longer than it would take me to zero a rifle, let alone an hours range time and then the drive home again. 20 minutes at the permission and even a completely new rifle can be zeroed and ready to shoot with, let alone checking or fine-tuning an existing set-up.

Tell me, please .. What am I missing ?

 

[oxfordshirestalker]

I completely get where you're coming from. I can see though that ranges are necessary/useful for some. Here are a couple of thoughts...
1. Those that don't have any land of their own but go on paid stalks may need somewhere to zero/practice in controlled conditions.
2. Those like me who are lucky enough to have permission over parcels of land where a few shots to zero would be fine, but 30-50 to test new homeloads would cause problems with noise/irritation.

 

[stubear]

From the people I have met its that most people dont have permissions, or that some who do may not be allowed to set up a range to zero on the ground they have or there isnt an appropriate spot to do this where you're out the way and have a safe backstop. Furthermore some folks might be able to get a quick shot off to check zero but they might not have the luxury of being allowed an hour or two to get accustomed to a new rifle.

The other element to consider is the facilities available at ranges can be far better - Shooting benches, covered firing points, electronic targets and so on, as well as the ability to take your time and maybe even socialise with your mates. Now ok for these circumstances its rather hard to complain about the range costs as you're making the most of them!

 

[FISH BOY]

I completely get where you're coming from. I can see though that ranges are necessary/useful for some. Here are a couple of thoughts...
1. Those that don't have any land of their own but go on paid stalks may need somewhere to zero/practice in controlled conditions.
2. Those like me who are lucky enough to have permission over parcels of land where a few shots to zero would be fine, but 30-50 to test new homeloads would cause problems with noise/irritation.

Pretty much this.

Must admit I enjoy a range session, not only to fine tune the kit, practise, but also test myself and improve.

Even if I was allowed to zero on my permissions, I dont think I would enjoy it as much knowing that firing 50-100 rounds, someone, somewhere would get upset and cause grief.

Dont get me wrong, if I had my own land or a huge permission that wouldn't disturb anyone, things would be different.

 

[Jack0106]

Not sure about the UK but in Ireland its an offence to "target shoot" on land that is not a certified range. So if you're caught zeroing a rifle on a farm you can be done for it even though they promote ethical killing etc...go figure that one out

 

[Longstrider]

Must admit, I hadn't thought about the poor blokes who can only get out out on paid stalks or whose permissions are small or close enough to housing that multiple shots would be problematic. Makes me realise (again) what a lucky so-and-so I am with my perms.

Jack .. I know I'm in England and you're in Ireland, but my FAC states that the rifles are to be used for deer, vermin, zeroing and OALQ. How in hells name are you expected to shoot efficiently if you can't check zero on the day ?

 

[Jack0106]

I've access to 1700 acres for sika and reds. Still not worth the hassle

 

[Klenchblaize]

With few exceptions if you commence using your "permission" (oh how I hate that term) as an improvised full bore rifle range you won't have it for long. And even if using a moderated setup.

Obviously there are exceptions.

K

 

[The deer man]

. . .Jack .. I know I'm in England and you're in Ireland, but my FAC states that the rifles are to be used for deer, vermin, zeroing and OALQ. How in hells name are you expected to shoot efficiently if you can't check zero on the day ?

And that's just it, zeroing. There is no limit to how many rounds you use for zeroing on private land or how often whether shooting at bullseye targets, deer targets or tin cans so long as the conditions on your certificate allow you to be shooting over that land and include zeroing (which it generally does).

I had this out with our local FLO a number of years ago as I was accused of target shooting on private land and not on a range due to the quite high amount of ammunition I was allowed to hold on my certificate. I pointed out that all my rifles were sporting rifles not target rifles, not that that matters if the rifle in question is conditioned for deer and vermin etc, and then showed him the Firearms Act and guidance notes to the Police. He was satisfied and I increased some of my ammunition allowance!

 

[deeangeo]

Most, if not all, commercial shoots will insist your rifle is checked for zero and they/you are happy prior to going out stalking.
They all usually have a facility/range for doing this and normally are very helpful in sorting issues out.

 

[Jack0106]

Must admit, I hadn't thought about the poor blokes who can only get out out on paid stalks or whose permissions are small or close enough to housing that multiple shots would be problematic. Makes me realise (again) what a lucky so-and-so I am with my perms.

Jack .. I know I'm in England and you're in Ireland, but my FAC states that the rifles are to be used for deer, vermin, zeroing and OALQ. How in hells name are you expected to shoot efficiently if you can't check zero on the day ?

That's the age old argument over here haha. There plenty of forum discussions where it deliberated. IM not 100% familiar with the fine print but it the general rule of thum

That's the age old argument over here haha. There plenty of forum discussions where it deliberated. IM not 100% familiar with the fine print but it the general rule of thumb here that you can only zero on a certified range and have read posts by people who would be zeroing their fox rifle for example and had the police confiscate it. Hoops have to be jumped through to get the guns back.

Its all a bit ridiculous really.

 

[Longstrider]

I'll bet there's a fair amount of "Well the fox/rabbit/deer ran away after the third shot I took officer .. but the small target it was standing next to is now history baby!"

I was never questioning the use of ranges for specific target shooting and appreciate that this is the place to go for this activity. It's not my thing, but I appreciate that it's this that floats others boats. If you want to blat off 100 rounds and make holes in a bit of card then a range is the place to do it.
It's the traveling and paying range time fees to zero a rifle that gets me. It should only ever take a few shots to set or check zero

 

[NigelM]

I had a long "theoretical" discussion with my FAO on this very subject.

I asked him if I was allowed to book a day at one of the Welsh long range schools, WMS or Orion. I explained we would shooting about 100 rounds in the day, finding out what the drops were at varying distances so we were confident in our ability to take longer shots if required.

At first he was happy that this came under zeroing but then did a bit of a U Turn and decided it qualified as target shooting and as such my licence did not allow for it.

If I joined a rifle club, once I had gone through their initiation process and been granted full membership they would happily add target shooting to my ticket. Alternatively I could write to them when I had booked my day and they would grant me a temporary extension to my licence for that day only.

I find it a bit odd that they are happy for us to go to our permissions which are more often than not crossed by footpaths and back stops are relatively poor, but are worried about us going to the very controlled environment of a certified range and shoot into 10 meter banks.

 

[Bavarianbrit]

When I was working in Roswell New Mexico the shooting club used the military schools range with over 1000 yards long and grenade pits etc we were all given a key to the main gate so we could go and practise any time of daylight.
Ah happy days.
Here in Germany I can do control shots in my revier but am expected to go to a range for any protracted shooting sessions.

 

[paul o']

All my rifles on my cert I have put them down for zeroing on land I feel fit as I have a open cert , I also them listed for AOLQ and on ranges owned by others inc : clubs or and the MOD . that also includes the zeroing of hunting exp bullets but target shooting is none exp but plastic tipped bullets are ok ? AMAX and ELD-M etc as they won't kill deer as they don't exp

 

[JabaliHunter]

Zeroing is only the start of a long journey... When those fallow break cover at 400+m I don't want to be reliant on a 20 minute zeroing session at 100m.

 

[Alantoo]

Why do you use a range ?
Snip...
I just don't really understand the need for a dedicated range for anything other than target competitions and practice for same.
As for complaining that this or that range charges too much per hour just baffles me .. I live about 25 miles from a well known and relatively new rifle range but I'd reckon the drive there would take a ruddy-sight longer than it would take me to zero a rifle, let alone an hours range time and then the drive home again. 20 minutes at the permission and even a completely new rifle can be zeroed and ready to shoot with, let alone checking or fine-tuning an existing set-up.

Tell me, please .. What am I missing ?

Practice?

Do you not practise your knife skills at all? Do you just rely on the quality of your blade and the edge as it came from the factory when competing?

My shooting has improved through pulling the trigger at the range. I am surprised at the complacency of many stalkers that they feel it unnecessary or irrelevant to improve or even practise their marksmanship. I reminded of the old Flanders and Swann song line criticising foreign sportsmen because they "practise before hand and spoil all the fun"

My main reason however is that I enjoy shooting my rifle. I do not go in for target competitions with others. Quite happily self motivated.

Load development and testing? 10 rounds for safety / pressure and velocity testing and then a few five round groups for tweaking...

For checking zero I can and do shoot from the kitchen doorway with a 97 yard range to a berm in the back garden. And even though my nearest neighbour at 300 yards has a couple of propane guns going off every 15 minutes at similar distances, and the neighbour at 800 metres does have a trap and will put through a few boxes of cartridges now then, I don't wish to irritate them even if they sometimes irritate me! As has already been mentioned above if you are wishing to put 20 or 30 rounds down at a session many of my permissions are within earshot of other dwellings, the nuisance factor means that the range is the best place.

The social aspect is not irrelevant either. An evening at the range makes it more of an occasion. A friend and I take it in turns to drive, the passenger pays for the fish and chips on the way. There is always something wrong with somebody's set up that we can discuss, assist with or laugh at!

I rarely go to a pub, but could ask what I am missing there, when I can drink in the comfort of my own home at a fraction of the cost and no breathalyser worries. Not entirely dissimilar.

I could just buy factory ammunition and query the need for reloading...to each his own.

Alan

 

[kennyc]

I had a long "theoretical" discussion with my FAO on this very subject.

I asked him if I was allowed to book a day at one of the Welsh long range schools, WMS or Orion. I explained we would shooting about 100 rounds in the day, finding out what the drops were at varying distances so we were confident in our ability to take longer shots if required.

At first he was happy that this came under zeroing but then did a bit of a U Turn and decided it qualified as target shooting and as such my licence did not allow for it.

If I joined a rifle club, once I had gone through their initiation process and been granted full membership they would happily add target shooting to my ticket. Alternatively I could write to them when I had booked my day and they would grant me a temporary extension to my licence for that day only.

I find it a bit odd that they are happy for us to go to our permissions which are more often than not crossed by footpaths and back stops are relatively poor, but are worried about us going to the very controlled environment of a certified range and shoot into 10 meter banks.

seems a bit of a stretch to call a training day "target shooting" especially as you could probably use the schools own rifles rather than your own for all he knows?
as to the 100 rounds a day ? I've never shot less than 300 at WMS/Orion

 

[The Singing Stalker]

Most of us have the means to accuartely measure off 100yds, 200yds or whatever on our permissions.

I would disagree with that statement. I only use one of my perms for zeroing. The others I wouldn't for varying reasons. Even on the one I use I have to ensure that the animals are away.

 

[Alantoo]

All my rifles on my cert I have put them down for zeroing on land I feel fit as I have a open cert , I also them listed for AOLQ and on ranges owned by others inc : clubs or and the MOD . that also includes the zeroing of hunting exp bullets but target shooting is none exp but plastic tipped bullets are ok ? AMAX and ELD-M etc as they won't kill deer as they don't exp

That is an odd one on my certificate as well...I think they have just confused shooting at a target with Target Competitions...I couldn't get any sense out of them when I queried the bit tacked on to the end of the range use/target shooting condition in capital letters..."THE FIREARMS MAY ONLY BE USED WTH NON EXPANDING AMMUNITION WHICH DOES NOT EXCEED THE RANGE SAFETY CERTIFICATE LIMITATIONS".

@NigelM and @kennyc

Gloucester put this into my conditions...

"5.
The .22 & .308 RIFLES, SOUND MODERATORS & AMMUNITON to which this certificate relates shall be used for VERMIN CONTROL (.22), DEER/FOX/WILD BOAR CONTROL (.308) and for zeroing & practice on RANGES. or LAND over which the holder has lawful authority to shoot"

Is the "& practice" bit not standard? I can't believe a day at long range targets could be considered anything else.

Alan