Re-barreling UK
- Thread starter Uncas
- Start date
Alternatively, just buy a Blaser and mount your new barrel in about 20 seconds
Not sure that solves the OPs issue of cost though!
I’ve sent you some bin bags and disposable gloves in the post
Because the UK market is minuscule compared to the US abs economies of scale come into play
Well, having looked at the social media feed of a certain gunsmith it looks like they are now using IBI prefit barrels, some pre-shouldered and some with a variable shoulder/castle nut.
There does not seem to be any reduction in price for fitting these 'oven ready' barrels.
The preventative part of this is UK firearms law, not the technical aspects.
Why? Getting an RFD is easy if you have a business plan.
Simple maybe, but not easy.
You'll need the funds to set up the business, sufficient storage space, security and insurance.
Qualifications- This seems to be a grey area, as RFD ≠ Gunsmith, but all gunsmiths have to be RFD's as far as I'm aware.
What qualifies you to be a gunsmith? Courses? Engineering degree? Ex-forces armourer? Sizeable body of previous work completed to a high standard?
I'm not an RFD or gunsmith, so I can't say.
The fact that Brownells and many other US based companies are selling these 'un-proofed' pre-fit parts for a DIY rebarrel says that:
1. There is a demand for it.
and
2. It can be done safely with acceptable results.
I doubt there would be someone going to compete in an F-class world championship using these parts, but for the 'average' deer-stalker I think they would be elated if they could replace their own barrels and achieve the same level of accuracy as a factory barrel or even slightly better.
In some states in the USA you would be able to get these parts sent to you directly, and the rifle would be 'ready to shoot' as soon as you've removed the old barrel with an action wrench (maybe a lot harder depending on the manufacturer), screwed the new one on, torqued it to spec and checked headspace.
No visit to the proof house, no 'gunsmith time', no RFD to RFD fees. Cheaper, faster and less hassle. Savage rifles have been using this system for years.
I suspect this would be a non-starter in the UK as if you mentioned the above process to the average Firearms Licensing Officer they would have kittens.
I have an old article from a gun magazine written by the head gunsmith of Gander Mountain
now owned by Cabella's, he was Ackley improving an existing barrel for a customer, he went through every stage
for the article and stated that it took three hours from start to finish.
now owned by Cabella's, he was Ackley improving an existing barrel for a customer, he went through every stage
for the article and stated that it took three hours from start to finish.
Sonicdmb73
Well-Known Member
@Ronin has described the process as I have seen it done by the smith I use.
However he missed off some of the process that takes time too. Many rifles turn up as they are usually taken out of the cabinet. So you have to strip off the stock, scope etc to get down to the actual action. That you then have to set up in the lathe.
Having a small lathe that I use for making bits and pieces on. I appreciate the time involved in trueing in a chuck, a four jaw is bad enough. And I am not going for the accuracy that they work to either.
Just consider that if you have a new (ish) car and go to the main dealer. You are likely going to pay around £100 an hour for the privilege. Quite often for work done by a “fitter”.
But don’t think paying someone who has quite probably done a five year apprenticeship as a tool maker. Along with the costs of machinery and tooling (which can be eye watering in itself) and the workshop with associated cost. A decent hourly rate is appropriate.
I think part of the problem is that rifles have come down in price so much that it gives an artificial idea of worth. The argument I can get a new “insert name” for that price.
Doesn’t really relate to the work and costs involved in fitting a new barrel.
The other thing is that quite a bit of the stuff is imported from the State’s, but it can’t always be sent back if faulty etc. If the smith makes a mistake it could mean a new blank is required. All of which needs to be taken into consideration. After all they are running a business, if you were asked to work for less would you be happy to?
However he missed off some of the process that takes time too. Many rifles turn up as they are usually taken out of the cabinet. So you have to strip off the stock, scope etc to get down to the actual action. That you then have to set up in the lathe.
Having a small lathe that I use for making bits and pieces on. I appreciate the time involved in trueing in a chuck, a four jaw is bad enough. And I am not going for the accuracy that they work to either.
Just consider that if you have a new (ish) car and go to the main dealer. You are likely going to pay around £100 an hour for the privilege. Quite often for work done by a “fitter”.
But don’t think paying someone who has quite probably done a five year apprenticeship as a tool maker. Along with the costs of machinery and tooling (which can be eye watering in itself) and the workshop with associated cost. A decent hourly rate is appropriate.
I think part of the problem is that rifles have come down in price so much that it gives an artificial idea of worth. The argument I can get a new “insert name” for that price.
Doesn’t really relate to the work and costs involved in fitting a new barrel.
The other thing is that quite a bit of the stuff is imported from the State’s, but it can’t always be sent back if faulty etc. If the smith makes a mistake it could mean a new blank is required. All of which needs to be taken into consideration. After all they are running a business, if you were asked to work for less would you be happy to?
harrygrey382
Well-Known Member
I think it depends on what work is done. For screwing in and head spacing a prefit barrel I’d say it’s too much. If it includes truing the action, bluing the barrel (and so probably the action), installing sights and modifying the barrel channel it’d be very reasonable.
So what is the retail price of a lother Walter prefit in the UK?
kennyc
Well-Known Member
its OK he found that Fox a couple of years ago under the Stand
Not true.
Back when BSA made rifles, dealers (most likely with an attached gunsmith) were able to order parts (like barrels) from the factory in case a replacement was required.
The ability to replace parts on your rifle in case of damage, wear or faults used to be something that was factored into production and supply of said equipment (product support). I know a former BSA dealer and he said that re-barrelling was never an issue, so long as you had a factory barrel on hand, as the cost to supply was not high in comparison to today's prices (then again, quality and consistency may have improved greatly).
If you ring up the dealer from whom you bought the now out of production Sako many moons ago and say: 'I've dropped my rifle and the hinged floorplate has been crushed, got a spare?' the likelihood of being told that they do indeed have a suitable replacement (in the UK at least) is pretty low. You would be better off asking an independent gunsmith who might have a few lying about after their clients have requested magazine conversions.
Trade secret there mate
Why do you think the Master Wardens and Society of the Mystery of Gunmakers of the City of London and the Guardians of the Birmingham Proof House (I am not making these names up, google it) are held in such high esteem? If you don't know the secret handshake and wear the funny hats, you are not allowed in!
They probably have my name written down on the naughty list now
harrygrey382
Well-Known Member
Wow, yes with names like that they clearly aren’t planning helping anyone out... but seriously - can’t anyone with the relevant bit of paper (variation for a caliber or out for a replacement barrel - maybe after disposing I’d the old one) buy a barrel? At the very least they’d be a supplier or several that can price them. I was just wondering what proportion of that 700 was the actual barrel Price.Trade secret there mate
Why do you think the Master Wardens and Society of the Mystery of Gunmakers of the City of London and the Guardians of the Birmingham Proof House (I am not making these names up, google it) are held in such high esteem? If you don't know the secret handshake and wear the funny hats, you are not allowed in!
They probably have my name written down on the naughty list now
On your other point - I agree about the way things have come, just look at the biggest name in bolt action history putting out their highest selling centre fire models with a barrel which can’t be relaxed. But it’s just another example of consumerism hammering prices down and people preferring to buy cheap and new instead of repair old - One of the main causes of the environmental problem we’re in now.
harrygrey382
Well-Known Member
Brownells uk offer their brand short chambered barrel in 30-06 for GBP147, I’m not sure what other calibres, and you do need a reamer, but that’s cheap...
Personally I prefer long chambered barrels as you don’t need a reamer, there’s no risk of molesting the chamber and it’s been cut on the same reamer so no chance of two reamers on opposite ends of the spec
Personally I prefer long chambered barrels as you don’t need a reamer, there’s no risk of molesting the chamber and it’s been cut on the same reamer so no chance of two reamers on opposite ends of the spec
Alternatively, just buy a Blaser and mount your new barrel in about 20 seconds
or accuracy intenational
Someone got out of the wrong side of bed!!
There’s no need to be throwing the F word around, it doesn’t make you look big or clever
Look at the different costs of "New Rifles" currently on Guntrder there is a Savage Edge .243 win. for £350 to a Churchill in 25/06 at £12,000.
I wouldn't be surprised if the Savage shot better, it wil certainly be easy and cheap to rebarrel.
A lot depends on what you want, factory sporter accuracy is adequate for most deer stalkers.
I wouldn't be surprised if the Savage shot better, it wil certainly be easy and cheap to rebarrel.
A lot depends on what you want, factory sporter accuracy is adequate for most deer stalkers.
welshwarrior
Well-Known Member
Churchill rifle is a Mauser action simple to rebarrel so cheap to do if your happy with a very cheap barrel, and even cheaper if you have an RFD to buy it. BROWNELLS MAUSER BARREL Short Chambered Barrel, 1-10 Twist, .25-06 Rem. - Brownells UK
But do you want that quality on a best English rifle and all the Churchill rifles I’ve shot have shot very well as you expect from a custom rifle maker not all the savages I’ve shot have shot well.
But do you want that quality on a best English rifle and all the Churchill rifles I’ve shot have shot very well as you expect from a custom rifle maker not all the savages I’ve shot have shot well.
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