Reloading 223 very lucky escape

[Shootist]

50 grain V-Max in front of 24 grains of N1440 is a 10% compressed load according to Quickload. It isn't up there as a dangerous load per se, but it's warm. That should not produce the results you had. Pressures from that are calculated at 52143 psi. I haven't got date for a Winchester Winx super 55 gn but a 55 grain Hornady SP pressure calculates to 525664 psi, not enough difference to matter. So, what's left?

1. The rifle was on the point of doing this due to some previous issue.
2. There was a bullet already lodged in the barrel when you fired. Give it a wipe out and take a good look down the barrel. Don't use too bright a light. If there's a shadowed 'ring' in the rifling then there was likely a bullet jammed there when you fired.
3. Wrong powder? (I've done that. Bad enough to knock the primers out but the rifle is OK) That was a full load of N133 in a .308 as opposed to the N140 intended.
4. Possibly the bullet was jammed into the rifling die to the COL being measured incorrectly. That can raise pressures significantly, although I wouldn't have thought so to such a degree. I wouldn't have thought this likely with a lighter bullet: possible but not very likely.

Firstly, get a gunsmith to check the rifle over. Secondly, give a great deal of attention to your reloading procedure. The greater likelihood of what happened is brain fade at the reloading bench. Let us know what you discover.

 

[sh1kar]

OK Just a guess Been studying 50g Vmax bullet shape and ogive and Winchester 55g soft point The Winchester has a much steeper angled ogive than the Vmax Assuming you had the same COAL I would have a suspicion that the Vmax would engage the lands much earlier, so for the same length you will be attempting to jam more of the bullet up the lands as somewhen speculated earlier Was bolt hard to close? Try covering the 2 different rounds in felt pen Chamber and see where the marks ar on the bullet if any DO NOT fire it clearly until a good rifle smith has been all over it

 

[Heym SR20]

what other powders do you own?

I have never seen a primer almost liquify and flatten like that from just a normal powder overcharge
considering the proof house levels are significantly above the normal range and you will hit case volume limits long before you get to that level with N133
there has to have been a major component shift or a squib bullet to cause that much overpressure

Rather than an over charge, could this have been an undercharged load where it has spontaneously combusted causing a massive spike in pressure. If is quite easy to dump in a light charge if you are not paying attention. Then rather than burning in a controlled manner, the whole powder charge goes off at once raising pressures massively.

Significantly overcharging a rifle cartridge with a rifle powder is difficult as most loads pretty much fill up the case.

 

[sinbad]

50 grain V-Max in front of 24 grains of N1440 is a 10% compressed load according to Quickload. It isn't up there as a dangerous load per se, but it's warm. That should not produce the results you had. Pressures from that are calculated at 52143 psi. I haven't got date for a Winchester Winx super 55 gn but a 55 grain Hornady SP pressure calculates to 525664 psi, not enough difference to matter. So, what's left?

1. The rifle was on the point of doing this due to some previous issue.
2. There was a bullet already lodged in the barrel when you fired. Give it a wipe out and take a good look down the barrel. Don't use too bright a light. If there's a shadowed 'ring' in the rifling then there was likely a bullet jammed there when you fired.
3. Wrong powder? (I've done that. Bad enough to knock the primers out but the rifle is OK) That was a full load of N133 in a .308 as opposed to the N140 intended.
4. Possibly the bullet was jammed into the rifling die to the COL being measured incorrectly. That can raise pressures significantly, although I wouldn't have thought so to such a degree. I wouldn't have thought this likely with a lighter bullet: possible but not very likely.

Firstly, get a gunsmith to check the rifle over. Secondly, give a great deal of attention to your reloading procedure. The greater likelihood of what happened is brain fade at the reloading bench. Let us know what you discover.

As above, with the possibility of excess oil left in the barrel after cleaning. It may not have been one specific thing but several smaller issues that on their own would not cause the problem you had. JMHO.

 

[PeterH]

Would these photos show that instead of overfilling (difficult with N133 to get excessive pressure) the OP very much under filled the case?

 

[ChesterP]

Would these photos show that instead of overfilling (difficult with N133 to get excessive pressure) the OP very much under filled the case?

That's my thoughts. Viht state that their start load for a 50gr bullet using N133 is 24.1gr (although in this case it has a different bearing surface length than the 50gr Vmax). There's quite a variation in start loads between bullets of just 5gr difference so taking a load you think safe for a 55gr bullet and using it under a 50gr bullet isn't wise without starting your load development from scratch. It's unlikely to be over pressure but could well have been slightly too low. It's all speculation. The only conclusive advice you can be given is DON'T copy what you might consider a "normal" load from one bullet to another. Change anything (including brass, primers, bullets or powder) and you should really re-do your load development. All shortcuts taken in reloading can potentially lead to an early grave.

As others have advised, best pull your other bullets, check your weights accurately, and start your load dev from scratch if you get your rifle sorted.

 

[LeftHandGuy]

That's my thoughts. Viht state that their start load for a 50gr bullet using N133 is 24.1gr (although in this case it has a different bearing surface length than the 50gr Vmax). There's quite a variation in start loads between bullets of just 5gr difference so taking a load you think safe for a 55gr bullet and using it under a 50gr bullet isn't wise without starting your load development from scratch. It's unlikely to be over pressure but could well have been slightly too low. It's all speculation. The only conclusive advice you can be given is DON'T copy what you might consider a "normal" load from one bullet to another. Change anything (including brass, primers, bullets or powder) and you should really re-do your load development. All shortcuts taken in reloading can potentially lead to an early grave.

As others have advised, best pull your other bullets, check your weights accurately, and start your load dev from scratch if you get your rifle sorted.

The only thing about this (which I basically agree with) is that starting from scratch, given Vhit's own data, 24 grain would appear to be a sensible starting load of N133 for a 50 grain bullet.

My immediate thought is contamination of the powder. Maybe the cases were damp inside, maybe some case lube got in there?

 

[ChesterP]

That's true enough but we're all speculating at the minute without knowing what the actual load was. The bolt blowing back seems unusual too unless it wasn't properly closed before the trigger was squeezed too, so we're all "shooting in the dark" on this one really.

 

[bhodge]

Just a thought...
The brass doesn't look particularly clean, so suppose there was a bit of debris in the primer pocket prior to primer fit, and the flash hole was partially blocked. The new primer wouldn't have engaged the pocket fully, and in fact may have been a bit proud of the case (conjecture, but stay with me!). We are talking fractions of a millimetre here. Loading the round, and the bolt almost, but not fully, closes. Firing the round results in the primer igniting - exploding, dislodging the debris and the projectile heads off down the barrel. At the same time the primer blows back, sending the bolt and bits of shrapnel your way....
The damage to the case head indicates (to me anyway) that the course of events are similar to what I'm thinking.

 

[JTO]

First shot at the Target and it blow back into my face im ok i had a very lucky escape
i have a very sore eye and some minor cuts on my face.

What blew back in your face, not the bolt, surely?

 

[LeftHandGuy]

What blew back in your face, not the bolt, surely?

I think we can be pretty sure that it didn't, since he initially said that it was still stuck in the action. I must admit that I was wondering the same thing as you, but I assume a mixture of gas and parts of the magazine?

 

[the prowler]

Had this happen with my sako75 17remington one day. Gun report was odd. Primer in case was gone. It was a very rainy day. Put it down to water in barrel, chamber? Never happened again.

 

[oxonhunter]

What blew back in your face, not the bolt, surely?

No not the bolt just blew back and yes the bolt was properly closed before i pulled the trigger


and going by what vihtavuori says 24g should be fine for 50gr
And tomorrow I will pull the bullets and recheck weights and start again from scratch thats if get my gun sorted

 

[Orvil]

As everybody has said, it's difficult to figure out exactly what has happened
You can rule out a double charge of the correct powder
It's either:
Gross underload
Wrong powder used (N3 series powders come in the same canister)
Barrel obstruction

Judging from your photo's and the mention that your barrel was clear prior to shooting (did I get that right?) and my presumption you're not a pistol calibre loader, my guess is you've suffered an extreme pressure blow from an underloaded cartridge. Never been proven in a lab but I've seen 2 and been involved in one investigation (RCO).
Recommendation: check your load tray after charging with a torch mate! You owe it to your eyes and guns!

 

[Alantoo]

Hi Not been Reloading 223 that long its been about 9 months

Yesterday i got some 50g vmax to try i reloaded 10 rounds i did my normal load

federal primers 24.0gr of N133 as it’s the most consistent and accurate for my gun.

First shot at the Target and it blow back into my face im ok i had a very lucky escape
i have a very sore eye and some minor cuts on my face.

and it blow mag out of the gun + the mag is in bits + the bolt is stuck in the gun.
the Bullet had left the chamber but can anyone explain what happen.

Scary stuff, I am glad you are okay.

Look forward to hearing what the verdict/case condition is when you get the bolt out.

Hornady Reloading (9th edition) list 23.7gr. of N133 as "max load use with caution" giving 3500fps for 50gr. V-MAX in a 223 Remington. While currently Vihtavuouri list 24.1gr of N133 as starting load and 25.9gr as max load for a 50gr. bullet.

I have had a strange result from 110gr. V-MAX and N133 in my .308 using Vihtavuouri figures which again are significantly higher than than those from my first edition Lee Modern Reloading which reckons on 46.3gr. max generating 3180fps. I was getting 3125fps. from that load with my 22" 1:11" barrel which seems to compute even though it is an old publication.

But the best 5 shot groups were 0.53" and 0.673" at 49.05gr (just below the 49.1gr. top of the Vihtavuouri range) and although I had no sticky bolt or saw flattened primers, when I checked it with a Chronograph they were averaging 3340fps which is 30fps faster than Vihtavuori cite with a 24" barrel 1:12"with their maximum load. On closer inspection the primers were slightly more flattened than the others but about the same as Hornady Superformance factory rounds. I will look again for a lower charged node I think, maybe you should do the same...

Alan

p.s. I see you have posted pictures of the case now...how many times have you loaded that case? Had you noticed any primers going in a bit easier than others?

 

[PeterH]

..................................
Recommendation: check your load tray after charging with a torch mate! You owe it to your eyes and guns!

That is why ages ago I adopted the procedure of never using the loading tray to fill cases with powder - if as said above you discover a load of spent powder when you check - which would be the offending round? I fill each case away from the tray sat on top of a piece of white paper - that way any spillage is spotted right away.

 

[Border]

A couple of things, how old was the powder? I have powder that is 10+years old. The load data has no doubt changed twice since then. Use the applicable data to the powder.
Did you eyeball the filled cases with a torch to check that they were all the same level?
As mentioned before, maybe powder spillage gave a reduced load or that debris in the case prior to powder charging reduced internal space resulting in higher pressure.
Haven't heard much of faster burning powders giving SEE effect. Thought it was a low charge magnum powder occurence?

 

[oxonhunter]

I don’t use a loading tray i fill cases with powder on a piece paper and the cases
are once fired cases. and the powder is not old as i only brought it last year from oxford reloading solutions.

going to pull the bullets today and recheck weights

 

[Shootist]

With reference to a double load I would very much doubt that possibility, given that 24 grains N133 is classed as a compressed load in any event. The possibility of a very much reduced load leading to detonation is a much more attractive possibility. This is normally the preserve of much slower powders, which I wouldn't class N133 as being. Perhaps the OP might detail his loading procedure. That might offer some further clue.

 

[kenbro]

Would these photos show that instead of overfilling (difficult with N133 to get excessive pressure) the OP very much under filled the case?

Already been said, by Heym in post #23.
Ken.