Resizing once-fired brass

[WSSX]

Hi folks

Looking for some reassurance or clarity around full length resizing. I obtained some once-fired .222 brass I have been intending to reload. It was fired in another rifle and, as they were, I could not close the bolt on any of them. Having read stuff here and elsewhere, rather than resize to standard spec as per the die instructions (wound down to the shell holder plus a little more), I was intending to back the die out a whole or half turn, run a case through it and then try it in my chamber. I would do that until it fit snugly without any resistance, at which point I could set the lock screw and know everything would be nice and uniform and tailored to my rifle.

However, following this procedure and checking as I went, I found some cases that still would not chamber without resistance, while others seemed fine. I kept adjusting the die down until really not far off shell holder contact and the issue continued. In the end I just followed the die (RCBS) instructions so that everything would be uniform (and everything fits nicely!), but why did my initial approach fail? I was thinking these could have gone through multiple rifles with different chamber sizes, but if the die was set up to push the shoulder back to a specific position to fit my chamber, would that matter?

I was wondering if my first experiment was actually one you would normally only run on your own fire-formed brass? The problem with that is the stuff I have accumulated so far fits nicely as it is...

All thoughts welcome!

 

[Dogtra UK]

I would resize/bump 3 to fit in your chamber, load, shoot and measure. You really need a comparator to measure the shoulder dimensions. I did some reloading coaching with a chap this weekend and got him from not being able to close his bolt on fired cases, bullets compressing back into the case to smooth bolt closure and one hole groups. But I did make him buy his only comparators before hand. Reloading is like any other form of engineering "Measure twice".

 

[Sinistral]

Hi folks

Looking for some reassurance or clarity around full length resizing. I obtained some once-fired .222 brass I have been intending to reload. It was fired in another rifle and, as they were, I could not close the bolt on any of them. Having read stuff here and elsewhere, rather than resize to standard spec as per the die instructions (wound down to the shell holder plus a little more), I was intending to back the die out a whole or half turn, run a case through it and then try it in my chamber. I would do that until it fit snugly without any resistance, at which point I could set the lock screw and know everything would be nice and uniform and tailored to my rifle.

However, following this procedure and checking as I went, I found some cases that still would not chamber without resistance, while others seemed fine. I kept adjusting the die down until really not far off shell holder contact and the issue continued. In the end I just followed the die (RCBS) instructions so that everything would be uniform (and everything fits nicely!), but why did my initial approach fail? I was thinking these could have gone through multiple rifles with different chamber sizes, but if the die was set up to push the shoulder back to a specific position to fit my chamber, would that matter?

I was wondering if my first experiment was actually one you would normally only run on your own fire-formed brass? The problem with that is the stuff I have accumulated so far fits nicely as it is...

All thoughts welcome!

It's far more likely that brass fired in another rifle won't fit because it has expanded at the head end, rather than at the shoulder.
The brass in the web section is much thicker, and needs more effort to resize back to spec.
The force you need to apply each time to resize isn't uniform as the expansion here varies from case to case.

More often than not (with foreign brass) this means bottoming the FLR die right down to the shell holder to make them all the same.
If you ever take micrometer measurements of the base of fired cases from your own rifle you'll find a number of them differ, every time.

 

[Muir]

Having read stuff here and elsewhere, rather than resize to standard spec as per the die instructions (wound down to the shell holder plus a little more), I was intending to back the die out a whole or half turn, run a case through it and then try it in my chamber.
.....In the end I just followed the die (RCBS) instructions so that everything would be uniform (and everything fits nicely!)

Following the die makers instructions instead of the Internet Forums?? You're lucky you weren't injured! What does RCBS know about reloading that a consortium of opinion can't tell you?? Damn little, I'm sure. ~Muir

 

[splash]

Ever heard the phrase:- learn to walk before you try running ?
Unless your trying to shoot competitions your getting way ahead of yourself. Reloading is all about little changes, there are so many variables to change.
Start from factory and change little things .

 

[Stalker62]

Start from factory and change little things .

Decent advice.
I started our with factory and them moved into the netherworld of reloading.
This became an all consuming hobby - took away my time, my money and I became something of a recluse in the shed at the bottom of the garden.
My wife said that things indeed must change. She made vague noises about leaving me and starting afresh with a man who had time for her and the children.

But we stuck to it.


"Didn't we darling? I was just saying darling, we stuck to it. Darling? DARLING?.... DARLING!

 

[WSSX]

Yeah, touche @Muir & @splash - sound arguments. I guess I'm trying to understand more about what's going on, though, rather than thinking I know more than RCBS etc - so interested why I couldn't get something others are apparently doing to work. Thanks for the thoughts on that front @Sinistral.

 

[Jagare]

Being a simple soul I always thought that FLR dies did just that. The instructions said wined the die down till it contacted the shell holder. I never read that it was a partial FLR die. Never realized a simple task like reloading is so complicated. I've just resized about 2000 .308. I bet every one of those cases will fit both my .308s with no problem. When I first read the die instructions 45 years ago, even though they were written in American they were easy to understand.

 

[gixer1]

Another simple method is buy some cheap PPU ammo, shoot it, and then neck size and load that as your once fired as it should be fire formed to your rifle!

Depends how many you intend to shoot and load I guess though!

Regards,
Gixer.

 

[WSSX]

Well I'm shooting my way through some Remington AccuTips that the rifle likes a lot so will play with that once I have a stash. This is just for fun and learning really!

 

[Steff]

It's far more likely that brass fired in another rifle won't fit because it has expanded at the head end, rather than at the shoulder.
The brass in the web section is much thicker, and needs more effort to resize back to spec.
The force you need to apply each time to resize isn't uniform as the expansion here varies from case to case.

More often than not (with foreign brass) this means bottoming the FLR die right down to the shell holder to make them all the same.
If you ever take micrometer measurements of the base of fired cases from your own rifle you'll find a number of them differ, every time.

Spot on.

 

[petesv]

you should always FULL length size any brass that has not been fired in your rifle and trim if needed i see people all the time at bisley having trouble chambering a round and when i ask where the brass comes from the most common reply a mates once fired or one bloke from the bins there.

 

[WSSX]

you should always FULL length size any brass that has not been fired in your rifle and trim if needed i see people all the time at bisley having trouble chambering a round and when i ask where the brass comes from the most common reply a mates once fired or one bloke from the bins there.

Thanks, this is what I've done - did the trimming tonight so good to go now. All useful learnings.

 

[Muir]

Yeah, touche @Muir & @splash - sound arguments. I guess I'm trying to understand more about what's going on, though, rather than thinking I know more than RCBS etc - so interested why I couldn't get something others are apparently doing to work. Thanks for the thoughts on that front @Sinistral.

All brass is not the same. If you have "once fired" but not the same make, or not fired in the same rifle, or in the same weather, you will have different datum points on the shoulder. It's that simple. Keep your die set as it is. You'll do well.~Muir

PS: Half a century of reloading and I have yet to feel the inclination to buy a 'comparator'.

 

[NP435]

The brass must fit your chamber and no you didn't do wrong entirely. Sizing in steps with gradual adjustment will give brass that fits the rifle in question and probably not any other. I like a slight crush fit so my shoulders don't get pushed back much, one chamber requires a bit more effort as indicated by RCBS so I do that. What I never do is use unknown brass from any source. Nor will I shoot handloads from unknown sources as in sold at flea market's/ gun show's ect. If I know the person who loaded that ammo and in that persons gun only I am ok shooting it, just not in my chamber.

 

[Muir]

The brass must fit your chamber and no you didn't do wrong entirely. ....Nor will I shoot handloads from unknown sources as in sold at flea market's/ gun show's ect. If I know the person who loaded that ammo and in that persons gun only I am ok shooting it, just not in my chamber.

~Muir

 

[Dogtra UK]

Sometimes until people actually develop a feel for something, measuring is not a bad way to go.

 

[WSSX]

All brass is not the same. If you have "once fired" but not the same make, or not fired in the same rifle, or in the same weather, you will have different datum points on the shoulder. It's that simple. Keep your die set as it is. You'll do well.~Muir

PS: Half a century of reloading and I have yet to feel the inclination to buy a 'comparator'.

The brass must fit your chamber and no you didn't do wrong entirely. Sizing in steps with gradual adjustment will give brass that fits the rifle in question and probably not any other. I like a slight crush fit so my shoulders don't get pushed back much, one chamber requires a bit more effort as indicated by RCBS so I do that. What I never do is use unknown brass from any source. Nor will I shoot handloads from unknown sources as in sold at flea market's/ gun show's ect. If I know the person who loaded that ammo and in that persons gun only I am ok shooting it, just not in my chamber.

Thanks for the insight both, I'll leave the die where it is. Now all I need is some time and decent weather to knock up and test some loads - have a box of 40gr V-Max and another of 50gr Sierra SP Blitz, which to play with first...?