Rifle Not Grouping

[EccentricJackal]

Hi all,

As I have previously posted, I am shooting a .308 Parker Hale (possibly a 1100 lightweight but isn't in any way stamped with that), which I have owned for around a month but have as of yet had not managed to zero it.

I have been given plenty of advise about scope choices, and am aware that the current scope is not suitable (BSA Essencial Hunting Scope). I had hoped the scope would do me for a stalk booked at the end of this month before I looked at replacing it shortly after, but am now worried it is just not suitable.

So my question; If a rifle isn't grouping but seems to be stringing rounds all over a vertical line - not moving up or down after every shot but more or less randomly sprayed in a 1 inch wide strip up the middle of the target spanning 6-8 inches vertically, is it most likely a scope issue or could it be a rifle issue? - I understand this isn't much information to go on so I'm just looking for your best guesses.

Thanks for any help you can offer,

Ryan

 

[Markfox]

I'd first try it with a known good scope maybe of a friend and then report back

 

[shakey jake]

Has it got a mod and is the ammo sound

 

[EccentricJackal]

Scope could be a problem as I have an old Parker Hale and haven't updated the bases so I'm currently stuck with low rings that make the bolt brush the scope - wouldn't want to borrow a scope knowing I would be scratching the bottom of it every time I cycled the bolt.
It has a mod which was on tight but which came with te rifle so I don't know it's history.
Ammo should be sound, Factory Winchester Super-X 150gr.

 

[PeteL1]

Most rifles will shoot ok, unless the barrel is shot out or the crown damaged, so you should be able to get reasonable-ish groups with factory ammo.
The vertical random pattern of shots has the hallmarks of a loose reticle, so perhaps the scope is U/S?. Try another scope of known reliability on the rifle with properly fitted rings and bases. This will tell you whether you have a duff scope.
Let us know how you get on.
Peter

 

[Danny rem mag]

Hi Ryan, I had my howa 7RM do something similar last year and found the rear leopold scope mount was loose, in fact one screw was missing. Check everything that can be tightened is tightened, scope mounts, rings and action screws. Failing that try a different ammo/weight. My tikka m55 hates 170g geco but shoots .75moa nato 7.62 which I believe are 155g. I'm not familiar with your rifle but get online and find the twist rate and see what others are using. Is the trigger good or stiff? Is the firing pin holding up? I've had this on a couple of rimfires. Are you flinching (no offence, I don't know your experience) is it moderated. If so take it of and try a group, it might be causing it. I've heard of a couple of Lee Enfields spraying bullets all over caused by eroded muzzles, lop 2" off and they were back on song. Or contact Muir!!

 

[AN DU RU FOX]

it sounds like you need someone close to you that can give it the once over and then you can get a decent zero,firstly im not a fan of that winnie ammo,but i do know a lot use privvi its cheap and accurate in most peoples rifles, im no genius but i think your flapping because the stalks coming closer,ring the provider and see if theres an estate rifle you can use,then that frees you up to spend some time on your own gear,go through everything one thing at a time ,and get some help,atb doug

 

[EccentricJackal]

Like I said, the scope is dubious and hopefully responsible, what do you mean by U/S?

I'm going back to where I bought it tomorrow but want to go armed with some knowledge rather than blunder into it!

I've made sure everything is tight (as tight as I dare since I don't want to wreck the scope through inexperience and enthusiasm as the previous owner of my rimmy did!) but I haven't checked the bases as I had the scope mounted in the store.

I have tried three brands of ammo through it without success, although only the most recent (Winchester) ammo has been mentioned because it is the one I noticed the drift in - I never fired 6 shots without adjusting the scope before today, and put my inability to zero down to my inexperience (sighted my .22LR in last week with around 5 shots which is what got me thinking'why was this so hard on the other rifle...').

I am not offended by your question about flinching - I have wondered the same thing as I have limited experience with centerfires but I am feeling fairly confident now that it is not flinch (also the rifle is moderated and really has no kick whatsoever, especially compared to 12 bore etc. which I regularly shoot).

 

[EccentricJackal]

I am starting to flap a little as I was hoping to take my own rifle out, but there is an estate rifle which I can use so it certainly isn't a disaster if I don't get it sorted in time.

I meant to ask in my previous post, who is Muir??

 

[AN DU RU FOX]

U/S =useless,ps muir is a wizard that drifts around s/d on a ephereal cloud, hes also a genius,

 

[EccentricJackal]

Thank you for clarifying!

I am hoping that is the case as I can hopefully get my money back on the scope (shop owner suggested it for my rifle) and replace it with something more suitable

 

[AN DU RU FOX]

good luck with the shop and report back ,in the meantime check if theres anyone that could help a little close by then at least you have something to compare with,atb doug,

 

[Monkey Spanker]

Could be a few reasons, but probably your scope or even mounts.
Try it without the moderator (assuming you have one?)
Get the Barrel thoroughly de-coppered and the fire a couple of 'foulers' before grouping.
Ensure the barrel is either free-floating or is tight into the stock.
Check torque all screws on bases rings on scope.
MS

 

[User00026]

may not be a scope issue tbh. have you checked if the barrel is touching the walls of the barrel channel/ie. pressing against one side or can you run a sheet of paper up and down the barrel?

also, as mausers such as used in PH's have straight walls, very often you get horizontal stringing due to inconsistent side pressure; however, in your case being vertical random shot placements I would not rule out pressure being applied from the barrel channel/ie, poor bedding.

have you checked the action screws on the floorplate are tight? you may find they are tight but the actual stock is inlet so you get a bit of barrel channel touching underneath the barrel, often this can also happen if you are using a bipod or a moderator.

IMHO, in no order of importance, all equally important, like said above test if barrel is floating freely, if a moderator is used, take it off, secondly, try shooting off a bag not a bipod (if you were), thirdly, of course make sure the action screws are tight, fourthly make sure the scope bases are tight, the rear base for example if a bit loose can easily cause stringing, this may mean you have to take the scope off again and check the screws, if doing do, use threadlocker to put them back in.

if you rifle has front and rear iron sights, I would actually take the scope off too and test at around 40m with the iron sights and see what kind of groups you get, esp. without bipod and moderator, having checked the action screws, and of course checked if the barrel is free floating.

I know this seems like a lot, but before you send the scope back you need to eliminate basic issues with the rifle.

hope this helps

 

[VSS]

My P-H was doing exactly the same thing.
Most of the problem was due to a duff scope.
However, even after changing the scope the problem wasn't fully resolved until I took the woodwork off and sanded out the fore end a bit, as the barrel was just touching at one point.
That more-or-less put the matter to rest. The final step in achieving acceptable groups was to start loading my own ammo.
So, as you can see from my experience, the issue might be caused by more than one influencing factor, each of which is acting independently of the others.


Edit: Sorry, just re-read your OP. My Parker Hale was spreading the shots in a horizontal line, not vertical like yours, so not exactly the same problem after all. But might have similar cause?

 

[User00026]

taking the barrelled action out and inspecting the barrel channel for black wear marks usually tells a good story too about where/if there's unwanted points of touching. that said, could just all be down to a rear action screw that's not fully tightened, simple as that.

on a separate note to the OP, if you are unsure about what's being suggested and how to go about it, please feel free to call me to talk it through tomorrow or saturday on 07468468815.

atb

Peter

 

[smullery]

Why does everyone "assume" it's always "the scope"?

A rifle will zero or it won't. You do not need a scope to tell this. Once you know the rifle zeros then you can start with a scope and its mounts and work up.

Always start with the rifle.

Stan

 

[EccentricJackal]

The screws are all tight, and other than the pressure point at the tip of the stock the barrel appears to be free floating.

I will try shooting without the mod, as tis wasn't something I had considered to be a problem, thank you for the suggestion. Unfortunately I don't have either iron sights so can't fall back on those.

I will remove the scope and check the bases are tight, as this is the only thing I haven't checked.

VSS, I have checked the barrel and it isn't touching the stock at any point other than the very tip of the stock, and I was under the impression this is normal? (pressure bedding?)

Thank you for the offer Peter, I will give you a call once I have ticked a few of the simpler suggestions off of the list I have been given if nothing improves!

Stan, I don't know what you mean by start with the rifle? Are you assuming I have iron sights? - otherwise I don't know how to check zero without a scope?

 

[Klenchblaize]

:arrow:
You don't need a US Firearms Guru to sort this but rather follow the arrow off site and into the caring arms of an experienced in-the-flesh Rifle enthusiast that most likely will be a member of your local shooting club.

K

 

[EccentricJackal]

I wasn't really looking for anyone to sort it for me - just a general idea of the most likely causes and the first things others more experienced than I would check on the rifle in this situation.

I will be consulting club members at the next club day but it is a small bore target club so any suggestions will be taken away to try on my own on a suitable range.

I may be being very naïve but what do you mean by follow the arrow??