Rifle slips and the law

[Dalua]

Each to their own but on highways, even at night, its wise to follow the law...

Which laws are you suggesting? I'm not aware of any laws that require rifles to be covered and/or unloaded or debolted in any particular places.

 

[kes]

Which laws are you suggesting?

Public Place - Highways differ from many footpaths which are on private land in that the surface is owned by the Highway authority and thus a public place. Try walking along one when the police are there with a loaded rifle and see what happens. On the other side of the coin the police are often aware of shooting over and on footpaths on private land and for them it is not an issue, until a complaint arrives.
The law and shootings position over the publics interface with it not always clearly understood by shooters or the public so 'best practice' advice is wise.

 

[Dalua]

Highways differ from many footpaths which are on private land in that the surface is owned by the Highway authority and thus a public place. Try walking along one when the police are there with a loaded rifle and see what happens.

I'm sure the Police would reasonably stop me if I tried to walk into Manchester with a rifle in that way. However, under more-rural circumstances, while out stalking for example, which laws would I have broken by walking along the road with an uncovered, loaded rifle?

 

[njc110381]

Just a passing thought after reading the snippets of the firearms act listed above - it looks like I could just wander through the local town with a shotgun as long as it isn't loaded, with no excuse needed? But a rifle on a remote footpath is an issue?

 

[kes]

I'm sure the Police would reasonably stop me if I tried to walk into Manchester with a rifle in that way. However, under more-rural circumstances, while out stalking for example, which laws would I have broken by walking along the road with an uncovered, loaded rifle?

A loaded rifle in a public place - its the designation NOT the number of people which define it as an offence and common sense is always a good guide - can we now drop this pointless chat - other will do as they wish.

 

[Pete1774]

I suppose it very much depends on where you live or shoot. I shoot in a very rural area and usually carry my rifle without a slip on private land. I often encounter people out for an evening stroll with thier dogs and they almost always stop for a chat. Most don't even mention the rifle and those that do are either shooters or wanting rabbits for the pot. Having said that I wouldn't want to test the principle if I was shooting close to a large town or other snowflake zone.

 

[Dalua]

A loaded rifle in a public place - its the designation NOT the number of people which define it as an offence and common sense is always a good guide - can we now drop this pointless chat - other will do as they wish.

I think we've already established that it might often be more sensible not to have an uncovered loaded rifle in a public place, and on the whole FAC-holders have a reasonable grasp of what is and isn't a good idea in this area.

I'm just trying to establish whether there's actually a law forbidding the possession of an uncovered and/or loaded rifle in a public place.

 

[devon deer stalker]

That is clearly not what I said. It is the landowners right to shoot over a footpath on private land but consideration and the 'public' nature of the path mean that one should be fair and reasonable and, when shooting should post notices at either end saying 'shooting taking place'.
So there is no difficulty - I dont know where you shoot but this together with a briefing on the 50 foot rule regarding highways is something any careful shoot should be aware of. When foxing in the evening I always take the rounds from my rifle - pocket the bolt but leave the gun without a slip as thats reasonable too when moving from one area to another by the highway. Each to their own but on highways, even at night, its wise to follow the law, not one or other interpretation of it. If you are a BASC member you should check their advice maybe.
I have checked with my FEO andhe's ok with this and most shoots I shoot over use the notices warning of shooting if there's a chance of coming into contact with the authorised public on foot i.e. footpaths.

I know, sorry, I was being devils advocate, like I say these legal threads aren't worth anyones time, taken up too much of mine already, and people jump, just like you have.
I had land checked by FEO years ago, we were standing on a public footpath when doing the survey.
Where do I shoot, Devon!

Back to the original question, common sense prevails, use it.

BTW, I will never be a member of BASC again.

 

[griff]

And then theres the Law in Scotland

 

[RescueMe0007]

As far as I'm aware there isn't a requirement in law to cover/case S1 or S2 firearms under any circumstances.
I've also walked the public highway with an uncovered rifle - which AFAIK is of itself not unlawful. It's not unlawful to shoot off the highway, as far as I'm aware - so a law requiring the weapon to be covered there would seem unhelpful!

I agree that common sense should rule here - tact and diplomacy!

If one is in Ireland (RoI) it is an offence to shoot within 60 feet of the centre of a road. I'd be surprised if the UK is that much different as the particular legislation was in place prior to independence. I understand that again we're required to have our firearms in a slip, cover or case etc., when transporting them in public, firearms in one's vehicle must be hidden from view. Fairly common sense stuff really, nothing terribly onerous.

 

[Tim.243]

And then theres the Law in Scotland

Thought they were all Sovereign Citizen's under Wee Crankies flag....

 

[simonl]

Public Place - Highways differ from many footpaths which are on private land in that the surface is owned by the Highway authority and thus a public place. Try walking along one when the police are there with a loaded rifle and see what happens. On the other side of the coin the police are often aware of shooting over and on footpaths on private land and for them it is not an issue, until a complaint arrives.
The law and shootings position over the publics interface with it not always clearly understood by shooters or the public so 'best practice' advice is wise.

You seem to be suggesting that a footpath on private land it not a public place, by virtue of the ownership.
A public place is just that, regardless of who owns it. You would have less good reason if you walk to macdonalds than along a rural footpath, but they are both public places.

 

[Tim.243]

You seem to be suggesting that a footpath on private land it not a public place, by virtue of the ownership.
A public place is just that, regardless of who owns it. You would have less good reason if you walk to macdonalds than along a rural footpath, but they are both public places.

Then there is Harrison V Duke of Rutland

Harrison v Duke of Rutland: CA 8 Dec 1893 - swarb.co.uk

H used a public highway crossing the defendant’s land, to disrupt grouse-shooting upon the defendant’s land. He complained after he had been forcibly restrained by the defendant’s servants from doing so. The defendant justified his actions saying that the plaintiff was a trespasser upon the...

swarb.co.uk

 

[willie_gunn]

If one is in Ireland (RoI) it is an offence to shoot within 60 feet of the centre of a road. I'd be surprised if the UK is that much different as the particular legislation was in place prior to independence. I understand that again we're required to have our firearms in a slip, cover or case etc., when transporting them in public, firearms in one's vehicle must be hidden from view. Fairly common sense stuff really, nothing terribly onerous.

It is subtly different.

"In England & Wales it is an offence without lawful authority or reasonable excuse to discharge any firearm within fifty feet of the centre of a highway which consists of or comprises a carriageway, and in consequence a user of the carriageway is injured, interrupted or endangered."

https://basc.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/downloads/2013/01/rights_of_way_access_england_wales_2012.pdf

So it is not an offence in and of itself to shoot within 50 feet of the centre of a highway in England and Wales. To become an offence it must be proven that a user has also been been injured, interrupted or endangered.

 

[Dalua]

If one is in Ireland (RoI) it is an offence to shoot within 60 feet of the centre of a road. I'd be surprised if the UK is that much different as the particular legislation was in place prior to independence. I understand that again we're required to have our firearms in a slip, cover or case etc., when transporting them in public, firearms in one's vehicle must be hidden from view. Fairly common sense stuff really, nothing terribly onerous.

The 50ft-rule, as above, is often misunderstood.
I have no idea about NI laws, but I don't think there's any law to say rifles/guns have to be covered in pubic here.
If left in vehicles, they should be hidden for security, of course, but that's the same in public or on 'private' ground - and it's not because of a specific law as far as I'm aware.

 

[kes]

You seem to be suggesting that a footpath on private land it not a public place, by virtue of the ownership.
A public place is just that, regardless of who owns it. You would have less good reason if you walk to macdonalds than along a rural footpath, but they are both public places.

I did not suggest a footpath over private land was NOT a public place - it is but you can shoot from one I have done so many a time but always wise to warn users because it is a PUBLIC Space

 

[kes]

You seem to be suggesting that a footpath on private land it not a public place, by virtue of the ownership.
A public place is just that, regardless of who owns it. You would have less good reason if you walk to macdonalds than along a rural footpath, but they are both public places.

I did not suggest a footpath over private land was NOT a public place - it is but you can shoot from one I have done so many a time but always wise to warn users because it is a PUBLIC Space

I know, sorry, I was being devils advocate, like I say these legal threads aren't worth anyones time, taken up too much of mine already, and people jump, just like you have.
I had land checked by FEO years ago, we were standing on a public footpath when doing the survey.
Where do I shoot, Devon!

Back to the original question, common sense prevails, use it.

BTW, I will never be a member of BASC again.

Your last sentence I fully agree with.

 

[kes]

I think we've already established that it might often be more sensible not to have an uncovered loaded rifle in a public place, and on the whole FAC-holders have a reasonable grasp of what is and isn't a good idea in this area.

I'm just trying to establish whether there's actually a law forbidding the possession of an uncovered and/or loaded rifle in a public place.

The law was set out earlier by someone in this very thread. Post 5 from Pedro.

 

[kes]

I'm sure the Police would reasonably stop me if I tried to walk into Manchester with a rifle in that way. However, under more-rural circumstances, while out stalking for example, which laws would I have broken by walking along the road with an uncovered, loaded rifle?

The same law just less likely to annoy anyone or cause them to fear the possibility of violence against them. The law is the law here and NO exception is made for urban or countryside. If in doubt ask your FEO
Being in the country these days does not mean everyone you come across understands Countryside attitudes. If the Police receive complaints about a man with a gun, lack of knowledge is never an acceptable offence - the fear of violence is embodied in (I think) the imitation guns legislation we have had introduced in the last 5 years - from memory (which gets worse).

 

[Twodogs]

agreed, common sense, but public footpath across farm land?
Its private land.

Yes it is private land, but along the course of the footpath it is also a public place. Either side of the footpath and beyond is, if relevant, private land.

Pedant with useless information alert!
A public footpath is also a road by definition, private or otherwise.
Section 192 (General Interpretations) Road Traffic Act 1988 - “road”
(a) in relation to England and Wales, means any highway and any other road to which the public has access, and includes bridges over which a road passes, and
(b) in relation to Scotland, means any road within the meaning of the Roads (Scotland) Act 1984 and any other way to which the public has access, and includes bridges over which a road passes.

A Highway is defined as -
S.328 of the Highways Act 1980 says under the section ”Meaning of “Highway” that a “highway” means the whole or a part of a highway other than a ferry or waterway, and includes bridges and tunnels which the highway passes over/ through. Which actually doesn’t really explain much!

However it is the common law definition that says ‘A highway is a way over which there exists a public right of passage, that is to say a right for all Her Majesty’s subjects at all seasons of the year freely and at their will to pass and repass without let or hindrance. ‘ (Halsbury’s Laws 21[1]).

A highway can be a road or a footpath. It does not have to be a drivable route.