Rifled choks for shotguns
- Thread starter EC225
- Start date
enfieldspares
Well-Known Member
I beat you, just, to the keyboard. Yes. 100%.
As has been pointed out a single trigger is semi automatic in so far as it goes I guess, as it fires one cartridge with each consecutive pull of the trigger. There may be a carve out in the law though
enfieldspares
Well-Known Member
CARTOUCHES MARYARM BECASSE SPECIALE CANON RAYE 33GR Pb9
Vous cherchez la cartouche pour chasser la bécasse avec un fusil à canon rayé alors voici la MARYARM BECASSE spéciale canon rayé en 33 grammes avec du plombs de 9.
www.jmartemis.com
enfieldspares
Well-Known Member
No. It requires that the fired cartridge be ejected by gas or recoil energy. Elsewise any modern O/U shotgun would be s1.
Last edited:
I stand corrected, that makes sense. I guess the UK legislation refers to self-loading rather than semiautomatic.
Read the patent for a start. Then move on to contemporary literature.
Don’t confuse Paradox rifling with rifled choke tubes which can be designed to spread shot. They are not the same thing.
Thank you, most helpful.
In order to summarise my thoughts on the OP:
I imagine that rifled chokes as a thing of themselves may be lawfully possessed in the UK, in the same way an unchambered barrel is not a controlled item.
I'd further imagine that thy could be fitted to a non-pump, non-self-loading gun by someone with authority to possess a rifle in whatever bore the 'gun' is - since fitting the rifled choke would presumably turn it into a rifle.
How does that sound?
I imagine that rifled chokes as a thing of themselves may be lawfully possessed in the UK, in the same way an unchambered barrel is not a controlled item.
I'd further imagine that thy could be fitted to a non-pump, non-self-loading gun by someone with authority to possess a rifle in whatever bore the 'gun' is - since fitting the rifled choke would presumably turn it into a rifle.
How does that sound?
enfieldspares
Well-Known Member
Ah. This is where it gets interesting. The "de facto" as in how the law is interpreted seems to be as you've well put in certain aspects.
That is if the "accessory" is fitted to a s5 it becomes s5 and it becomes s1 if fitted to a s1. The best "logic" regarding this in respect of s1 is that a .22 moderator on an air rifle is PRESENTLY in England and Wales not controlled but if the same moderator is fitted to a s1 .22LR bolt action it's taken to be s1.
Other than that it's all "he said, she said" in that as far as I know there's never been a court case here where a person has fitted a removable rifled choke to a s2 pump action or self-loading shotgun and then had the authorities prosecute them. So AFAIK there's no case law notwithstanding what the Memorandum of Guidance says about rifled chokes.
Same barrel as well, so even a double barrel with single trigger isn't, I get where you're coming from though
enfieldspares
Well-Known Member
Done by Fabarm many many years ago. These were around in the 1990s!
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
The way the Firearms Act is written:
Section 1 describes all guns being subject to a Firearms Certificate with three major exceptions:
Section 2: which defines Shotguns as having smooth bores of a minimum of 24”. If it is fitted with a magazine it must be unable to hold more than two cartridges
Exempt guns - powered by air with max muzzle energy of 12 ft lbs or 6 in the case of a pistol, or obsolete held as curios
Section 5: Prohibited guns - self loading semi and fully automatic, short overall length and barrel length etc - handguns are prohibited by their short length.
A rifled choke on a shotgun means that it is no longer smooth bored and thus is no longer legally defined as a “shotgun”.
“Paradox”, “Explora” etc were attempts by British makers, and others to give greater accuracy with a sporting gun that could fire both shot and a solid bullet. In the 1880s / 90’s there was still a view that big slow moving lumps of lead where the way forward.
Then along came rifles 7x57, 303s etc using smokeless powder at a small 170 odd grain bullet at 2,400 plus fps and they were very very much better at killing game especially at anything beyond 50 yards.
Most British gentlemen/ pioneers went with a shotgun and a rifle (which doubled as their military rufle) to the colonies.
Germans went down the route of combination guns combining a shot and a rifled barrel.
Section 1 describes all guns being subject to a Firearms Certificate with three major exceptions:
Section 2: which defines Shotguns as having smooth bores of a minimum of 24”. If it is fitted with a magazine it must be unable to hold more than two cartridges
Exempt guns - powered by air with max muzzle energy of 12 ft lbs or 6 in the case of a pistol, or obsolete held as curios
Section 5: Prohibited guns - self loading semi and fully automatic, short overall length and barrel length etc - handguns are prohibited by their short length.
A rifled choke on a shotgun means that it is no longer smooth bored and thus is no longer legally defined as a “shotgun”.
“Paradox”, “Explora” etc were attempts by British makers, and others to give greater accuracy with a sporting gun that could fire both shot and a solid bullet. In the 1880s / 90’s there was still a view that big slow moving lumps of lead where the way forward.
Then along came rifles 7x57, 303s etc using smokeless powder at a small 170 odd grain bullet at 2,400 plus fps and they were very very much better at killing game especially at anything beyond 50 yards.
Most British gentlemen/ pioneers went with a shotgun and a rifle (which doubled as their military rufle) to the colonies.
Germans went down the route of combination guns combining a shot and a rifled barrel.
palmer_mike
Well-Known Member
I wonder if there has been high speed filming to show how much actual spin one of these rifles chokes imparts on a slug?
enfieldspares
Well-Known Member
And the "Colindian" as below:
HOLTS Auctioneers
HOLTS are Europe's leading Auctioneers of Fine Modern & Antique Guns.
These were all, mostly, attempts for a gun that could be used as a shotgun yet have the capability to take large or medium cloven footed game that required a slug to either kill or kill at distance. An attempt to allow the man going after a bird for the pot to take larger quarry.
The idea being that in India which was the main market for these things you'd go out for duck or whatever else winged game was about bit of you saw deer or larger then you could open the gun, load two "ball" or "bullet" and be able to kill it.
So they weren't as such a poor man's double rifle (although could be used as would have been in the 1880s/90s an old school blackpowder breechloading 12 bore double rifle) but rather an attempt to give better accuracy at distance in a "shotgun" type weapon (with a specially designed projectile) than a mere smoothbore shotgun would firing a simple round ball.
The book "With Gun, Rifle and Hound" by "Snaffles" mentions them. By the time of smokeless metallic small bore (as in at that time anything under .400 or so) rifles they had seemingly become less popular as had the old school 12 bore double rifles.
Similar threads
