Rigby Highland Stalker - Any Bedding?

[Keith Edmunds]

I have been doing some research on the Rigby Highland Stalker and the Mauser M98 Standard Expert. I was surprised to find the following regarding the Mauser.....

"The action is glass-bedded in the stock with epoxy compound under the chamber section and underneath and behind the recoil lug. The rear action screw has a pillar acting as a spacer and there’s epoxy on each side of the front of the tang".

Does anyone know if Rigby does the same with the Highland Stalker??

 

[Heym SR20]

If a rifle with a wooden stock is properly bedded into well seasoned walnut with really good contact between the wood and steel there is no need for any bedding compound.

The only reason for bedding compound is that it is much much quicker that smoking the action, pressing it in and scraping out the high points. And when your labour costs are £50 plus per hour it soon adds up.

The Highland Stalker is described as having a hand bedded stock. I suspect it will have steel pillars, but given the money you pay I would be disappointed to remove the stock and find a load of epoxy bedding in there.

 

[Keith Edmunds]

If a rifle with a wooden stock is properly bedded into well seasoned walnut with really good contact between the wood and steel there is no need for any bedding compound.

The only reason for bedding compound is that it is much much quicker that smoking the action, pressing it in and scraping out the high points. And when your labour costs are £50 plus per hour it soon adds up.

The Highland Stalker is described as having a hand bedded stock. I suspect it will have steel pillars, but given the money you pay I would be disappointed to remove the stock and find a load of epoxy bedding in there.

Interesting. The Mauser Standard Expert is actually more expensive than the Rigby.

 

[jthyttin]

If a rifle with a wooden stock is properly bedded into well seasoned walnut with really good contact between the wood and steel there is no need for any bedding compound.

Very much doubt that. Another question is, what are you trying to achieve with bedding. And proper bedding requires you to isolate the action altogether from the "living parts" of the stock. Not those jobs where you slab a bit of epoxy in rear and front of action inlet.

Most times non-bedded stocks shoot just fine, but POI changes when you take barreled action out of stock and put it back. Even with sealed laminate.

 

[Keith Edmunds]

Very much doubt that. Another question is, what are you trying to achieve with bedding. And proper bedding requires you to isolate the action altogether from the "living parts" of the stock. Not those jobs where you slab a bit of epoxy in rear and front of action inlet.

Most times non-bedded stocks shoot just fine, but POI changes when you take barreled action out of stock and put it back. Even with sealed laminate.

It has always been my understanding that wood-stocked rifles benefit from glass/pillar bedding to enable repeatable performance when rifle dismantled/reassembled and also to negate adverse effects from wet/cold/dry/hot conditions.

Therefore, I often wondered if Rigby bedded their wood-stocked rifles in calibres where pin-point accuracy counts. J. Purdey added the titanium chassis to one of their models and, as above Mauser do an in-house bedding. With Rigby being part of the same group I would assume that the Highland Stalker had the same treatment.

 

[HonestJohn]

Keith,

As you’ll know, Rigby has through their history had a collaboration with Mauser. Mauser supplying them with barrelled actions and inletted, but unfinished stocks, shaped to their model requirements. Of course, kickstarting the true legacy of Rigby was when the pre war 98 commercial sporter produced by Oberndorf (waffenfabrik), and mostly sold across europe as the Model C. Of course, the model A and B and Afrikaans models were produced too, but in lower QTY’s.
Rigby would receive either standard large ring or small ring (small rings of ‘93 to 1898 were typically the converted given the consumer preferences between cock on closing and opening issues)), although small rings did contribute into the 98 series of course. Mostly standard length, but with a limited supply of the highly prized intermediate length for the 7mm Mauser they white labelled the 140g Rigby High Velocity. The intermediate action, and having owned two, are the epitome of pre war actions in tolerances and quality. However, due to magazine length limitations, was not ideally suited to the heavy for caliber 173g offerings that made the 7mm Mauser the enormously utilitarian rifle that it is (esp for handling boar and African species with authority).

Rigby of course, is a finisher, with a limited ability as a rifle parts manufacturer. Therefore,
Stocks and matching inletted barrelled actions arriving from Oberndorf, would be shaped externally to the final Rigby style, hand checkered, blacked, and have the typical open sights fitted of course. The trigger being a typical Mauser military trigger, would have a small hole drilled and tapped for a pressure screw to create a fixed trigger, more popular with the British market.
Engraving of the front receiver bridge where the Mauser roll stamp would be, would be carried out locally, or if bridge scope mounts fitted, on the first parallel section of the barrel.
Scope mounts of course, being a mix between early H&H dovetail style, Jager style, and claw mounts.
The safety lever would be left, although on later models a RH swing safety was observed, but this was much later when the company was sold and the cheaper lines using interarm actions - at this time, Rigby was in a tumultuous time, and production was reminiscent of Parker Hales time of mix-matching parts to create new rifles.

Irrespective, Rigby was responsible for the destruction of many thousand beautiful pear shaped Oberndorf bolt handles, by scalloping them. Something they must never be forgiven for

Whilst Mauser were producing their own upper end commercials such as the A series with leaf sights regulated to 500+, higher grade walnut, and metal called grips, horn tips, etc, and the B series with frip
Cap, swing lever floorplate, DST’s and. Two leaf sights with a front hood - Rigby of course would bespoke finish their assembly kits to the wealthy British establishment and wealthy business owners. A small qty of rare magnum action DSB snd SSB actions were brought in for the early market, but these are rarities.

Stocks were supplied inletted, and they very likely remain to be so today.

The bedding of the new 98 is indicative of a purely machined stock, where the ‘hard parts’ have been replaced with epoxy, - to create a better fit, yes, but definitely to save time and money. High end rifles are purchased by connoisseurs typically, they do not want shortcuts. This is a short cut.
The new Mauser 98 is laser checkered, hugely disappointing for its price class. In fact, the U.K. importer once described the new Mauser 98 series to me as an ‘Ikea’ rifle.

I can almost assure you that Rigby will be importing barrelled actions with semi finished stocks from ‘Mauser’, Sn.’d and pre bedded.

I love the Mauser (early) rifles and brand, but would I purchase either (anything) Rigby or Mauser today, absolutely not.

If I was to invest in a truly well built custom rifle, built fit for purpose and with blood sweat and tears, by people who actually ‘can’ do it themselves - it would without hesitation by Joel (Dorleac) and Pierre in Perpignan.

As. PS, there should always be a rear action removable pillar in a Mauser 98.

 

[Keith Edmunds]

Keith,

As you’ll know, Rigby has through their history had a collaboration with Mauser. Mauser supplying them with barrelled actions and inletted, but unfinished stocks, shaped to their model requirements. Of course, kickstarting the true legacy of Rigby was when the pre war 98 commercial sporter produced by Oberndorf (waffenfabrik), and mostly sold across europe as the Model C. Of course, the model A and B and Afrikaans models were produced too, but in lower QTY’s.
Rigby would receive either standard large ring or small ring (small rings of ‘93 to 1898 were typically the converted given the consumer preferences between cock on closing and opening issues)), although small rings did contribute into the 98 series of course. Mostly standard length, but with a limited supply of the highly prized intermediate length for the 7mm Mauser they white labelled the 140g Rigby High Velocity. The intermediate action, and having owned two, are the epitome of pre war actions in tolerances and quality. However, due to magazine length limitations, was not ideally suited to the heavy for caliber 173g offerings that made the 7mm Mauser the enormously utilitarian rifle that it is (esp for handling boar and African species with authority).

Rigby of course, is a finisher, with a limited ability as a rifle parts manufacturer. Therefore,
Stocks and matching inletted barrelled actions arriving from Oberndorf, would be shaped externally to the final Rigby style, hand checkered, blacked, and have the typical open sights fitted of course. The trigger being a typical Mauser military trigger, would have a small hole drilled and tapped for a pressure screw to create a fixed trigger, more popular with the British market.
Engraving of the front receiver bridge where the Mauser roll stamp would be, would be carried out locally, or if bridge scope mounts fitted, on the first parallel section of the barrel.
Scope mounts of course, being a mix between early H&H dovetail style, Jager style, and claw mounts.
The safety lever would be left, although on later models a RH swing safety was observed, but this was much later when the company was sold and the cheaper lines using interarm actions - at this time, Rigby was in a tumultuous time, and production was reminiscent of Parker Hales time of mix-matching parts to create new rifles.

Irrespective, Rigby was responsible for the destruction of many thousand beautiful pear shaped Oberndorf bolt handles, by scalloping them. Something they must never be forgiven for

Whilst Mauser were producing their own upper end commercials such as the A series with leaf sights regulated to 500+, higher grade walnut, and metal called grips, horn tips, etc, and the B series with frip
Cap, swing lever floorplate, DST’s and. Two leaf sights with a front hood - Rigby of course would bespoke finish their assembly kits to the wealthy British establishment and wealthy business owners. A small qty of rare magnum action DSB snd SSB actions were brought in for the early market, but these are rarities.

Stocks were supplied inletted, and they very likely remain to be so today.

The bedding of the new 98 is indicative of a purely machined stock, where the ‘hard parts’ have been replaced with epoxy, - to create a better fit, yes, but definitely to save time and money. High end rifles are purchased by connoisseurs typically, they do not want shortcuts. This is a short cut.
The new Mauser 98 is laser checkered, hugely disappointing for its price class. In fact, the U.K. importer once described the new Mauser 98 series to me as an ‘Ikea’ rifle.

I can almost assure you that Rigby will be importing barrelled actions with semi finished stocks from ‘Mauser’, Sn.’d and pre bedded.

I love the Mauser (early) rifles and brand, but would I purchase either (anything) Rigby or Mauser today, absolutely not.

If I was to invest in a truly well built custom rifle, built fit for purpose and with blood sweat and tears, by people who actually ‘can’ do it themselves - it would without hesitation by Joel (Dorleac) and Pierre in Perpignan.

As. PS, there should always be a rear action removable pillar in a Mauser 98.

Thanks for the comprehensive reply. So you think that Rigby are actually buying-in the inletted stocks as well as the barrelled actions? That is a surprise?? I would like to get 100% confirmation on that.

 

[enfieldspares]

Bedding, no bedding, glass bedding, pillar bedding, floated barrel, a bearing point on the forend surely the ONLY relevant question is how does the damn thing shoot and will it shoot five rounds rapid (discharge the whole magazine) without the group expanding from a perfectly acceptable 1" to 1.5" at one hundred yards or the point of impact moving. Some folk too much obsess on the form forgetting that what actually matters is in fact the function.

 

[enfieldspares]

Rigby bolt action rifles were at one point for those who couldn't easily afford a Westley Richards and couldn't ever afford a Holland & Holland. Functional working rifles and nothing wrong with that. But effectively, as others have said, the product of gun assemblers rather than gun makers. No different from what William Evans (and others) were doing at the same time with Webley made shotguns bearing the end retailer's name and no shame in that. But don't over egg them to what maybe they never were.

 

[HonestJohn]

Thanks for the comprehensive reply. So you think that Rigby are actually buying-in the inletted stocks as well as the barrelled actions? That is a surprise?? I would like to get 100% confirmation on that.

They’ll all be coming in as
Matched pairs from Germany, like they always have.

I think they might even outsource everything from blacking to engraving. I believe Katia Filipovic might be an engraving contractor - I do recall her showing me some actions she was working on, including William Evan’s actions for double rifles.

Will they come out and admit to such extensive outsourcing, of course not

 

[webley701]

Keith,

As you’ll know, Rigby has through their history had a collaboration with Mauser. Mauser supplying them with barrelled actions and inletted, but unfinished stocks, shaped to their model requirements. Of course, kickstarting the true legacy of Rigby was when the pre war 98 commercial sporter produced by Oberndorf (waffenfabrik), and mostly sold across europe as the Model C. Of course, the model A and B and Afrikaans models were produced too, but in lower QTY’s.
Rigby would receive either standard large ring or small ring (small rings of ‘93 to 1898 were typically the converted given the consumer preferences between cock on closing and opening issues)), although small rings did contribute into the 98 series of course. Mostly standard length, but with a limited supply of the highly prized intermediate length for the 7mm Mauser they white labelled the 140g Rigby High Velocity. The intermediate action, and having owned two, are the epitome of pre war actions in tolerances and quality. However, due to magazine length limitations, was not ideally suited to the heavy for caliber 173g offerings that made the 7mm Mauser the enormously utilitarian rifle that it is (esp for handling boar and African species with authority).

Rigby of course, is a finisher, with a limited ability as a rifle parts manufacturer. Therefore,
Stocks and matching inletted barrelled actions arriving from Oberndorf, would be shaped externally to the final Rigby style, hand checkered, blacked, and have the typical open sights fitted of course. The trigger being a typical Mauser military trigger, would have a small hole drilled and tapped for a pressure screw to create a fixed trigger, more popular with the British market.
Engraving of the front receiver bridge where the Mauser roll stamp would be, would be carried out locally, or if bridge scope mounts fitted, on the first parallel section of the barrel.
Scope mounts of course, being a mix between early H&H dovetail style, Jager style, and claw mounts.
The safety lever would be left, although on later models a RH swing safety was observed, but this was much later when the company was sold and the cheaper lines using interarm actions - at this time, Rigby was in a tumultuous time, and production was reminiscent of Parker Hales time of mix-matching parts to create new rifles.

Irrespective, Rigby was responsible for the destruction of many thousand beautiful pear shaped Oberndorf bolt handles, by scalloping them. Something they must never be forgiven for

Whilst Mauser were producing their own upper end commercials such as the A series with leaf sights regulated to 500+, higher grade walnut, and metal called grips, horn tips, etc, and the B series with frip
Cap, swing lever floorplate, DST’s and. Two leaf sights with a front hood - Rigby of course would bespoke finish their assembly kits to the wealthy British establishment and wealthy business owners. A small qty of rare magnum action DSB snd SSB actions were brought in for the early market, but these are rarities.

Stocks were supplied inletted, and they very likely remain to be so today.

The bedding of the new 98 is indicative of a purely machined stock, where the ‘hard parts’ have been replaced with epoxy, - to create a better fit, yes, but definitely to save time and money. High end rifles are purchased by connoisseurs typically, they do not want shortcuts. This is a short cut.
The new Mauser 98 is laser checkered, hugely disappointing for its price class. In fact, the U.K. importer once described the new Mauser 98 series to me as an ‘Ikea’ rifle.

I can almost assure you that Rigby will be importing barrelled actions with semi finished stocks from ‘Mauser’, Sn.’d and pre bedded.

I love the Mauser (early) rifles and brand, but would I purchase either (anything) Rigby or Mauser today, absolutely not.

If I was to invest in a truly well built custom rifle, built fit for purpose and with blood sweat and tears, by people who actually ‘can’ do it themselves - it would without hesitation by Joel (Dorleac) and Pierre in Perpignan.

As. PS, there should always be a rear action removable pillar in a Mauser 98.

Regarding relationship between Rigby & Mauser in the period roughly from the 1890’s to 1930’s - Mauser didn’t only supply barrelled actions (with or without part finished stocks). Mauser also supplied Rigby with ‘bare’ actions which were stocked & barrelled by Rigby themselves. Reference the original Mauser invoices shown in the Jon Speed books.

 

[Keith Edmunds]

They’ll all be coming in as
Matched pairs from Germany, like they always have.

I think they might even outsource everything from blacking to engraving. I believe Katia Filipovic might be an engraving contractor - I do recall her showing me some actions she was working on, including William Evan’s actions for double rifles.

Will they come out and admit to such extensive outsourcing, of course not

So you believe the Highland Stalker is coming in from Mauser as a matched pair - barrelled action and stock......What about the Big Game bolt action models?

Surely the double rifles are actually being made by Rigby?

 

[HonestJohn]

So you believe the Highland Stalker is coming in from Mauser as a matched pair - barrelled action and stock......What about the Big Game bolt action models?

Surely the double rifles are actually being made by Rigby?

A. Yes, and yes
B. No chance. Can’t recall the name of the people making the actions and barrels, but it’s not Rigby. They will be made ‘for’ Rigby. Rigby will likely assemble and finish, regulate, possible stock them… although I think AW Rule might have done work for them

You should visit their shop, you will see it’s not a place where rifles are being manufactured the way they are at WR.

It might sound like I’m being very harsh here. I have had lovely London Best Rigby’s .275 before and enjoyed them, their finishing work is excellent, but gunmakers, they are not

 

[HonestJohn]

Regarding relationship between Rigby & Mauser in the period roughly from the 1890’s to 1930’s - Mauser didn’t only supply barrelled actions (with or without part finished stocks). Mauser also supplied Rigby with ‘bare’ actions which were stocked & barrelled by Rigby themselves. Reference the original Mauser invoices shown in the Jon Speed books.

Yes, the London Best was the only one stocked in house I believe, Mauser didn’t have the high grade walnut

 

[Keith Edmunds]

A. Yes, and yes
B. No chance. Can’t recall the name of the people making the actions and barrels, but it’s not Rigby. They will be made ‘for’ Rigby. Rigby will likely assemble and finish, regulate, possible stock them… although I think AW Rule might have done work for them

You should visit their shop, you will see it’s not a place where rifles are being manufactured the way they are at WR.

It might sound like I’m being very harsh here. I have had lovely London Best Rigby’s .275 before and enjoyed them, their finishing work is excellent, but gunmakers, they are not

Hey, facts are facts and I am just looking for facts

 

[Keith Edmunds]

Okay, from 5 min 30 we go into the 'workshop' must admit that it is more of a 'finishing' room but then you wouldn't have the raw, heavy duty stuff going on in the same room, I guess. Is that a lathe just through the next door?

At the end of the video, with the guy working on a Highland Stalker, it does look like you had see some sort of bedding material in place?

 

[webley701]

Yes, the London Best was the only one stocked in house I believe, Mauser didn’t have the high grade walnut

Whilst I’m sure the higher grades were normally stocked in Britain the bare actions (barrelled & stocked in Britain) were used on more than just the higher grade rifles.

 

[HonestJohn]

Whilst I’m sure the higher grades were normally stocked in Britain the bare actions (barrelled & stocked in Britain) were used on more than just the higher grade rifles.

True, but the vast majority were coming in barrelled actions, except custom required chamberings and actions with single and double bridges.

I’m not slagging them, but I don’t wear rose tinted glasses either

 

[HonestJohn]

Okay, from 5 min 30 we go into the 'workshop' must admit that it is more of a 'finishing' room but then you wouldn't have the raw, heavy duty stuff going on in the same room, I guess. Is that a lathe just through the next door?

At the end of the video, with the guy working on a Highland Stalker, it does look like you had see some sort of bedding material in place?

A couple things you are not seeing in there.
A. CNC lathes and machines
B. Stock blanks
C. Shavings from stock shaping and roughing out.
D. Bluing tanks
E. Engraving desk
F. Leather workers
G. Clothing production and accessories

Ie. What you don’t see, is usually what is outsourced

I’d love to be proven wrong but I think I’m pretty spot on here

If they had a metal and stock machining room, why not include on the tour?

Why don’t you ask them for a visit/tour? They’ll oblige if you have genuine reasons commercially

 

[Kalahari]

Just to throw a tiny spanner in the works, do you think that if the fine rifle makers back in the late 1800s and early 1900s had had access to epoxy bedding and stuff do you think they wouldn't have used it as a way of getting round the problems of shipping stuff out all over the globe in vastly varying climates?

David.