in a different universe, far far away
assuming multiple universe theory is correct
Lead is denser than bismuth, with a density of (11.34 g/cm}^3 compared to bismuth's density of (9.78 g/cm}^3
Enfield spares and Liveonce - You are correct in your observations of what I posted but not in your conclusion of my knowledge,
it was a typo, not ignorance.
What I meant to say is that "Lead is slightly heavier than Bismuth and can be about the same or similar when alloyed" and by alloys I mean compared to say lead antimony alloys that are commonly used in bullet casting, think the old wheel weights we used when you could get them from garages. I have tried all sorts of alloys when I had access to them - some of the 3, 4 and 5 part alloys with Cadmium and Indium for example were interesting in their terminal behaviour. Cadmium being worse than lead in toxicity of course, so not solving the real problem and being ridiculously expensive.
A little lesson in chemistry -
Bismuth actually has a higher atomic mass at 208.98 where lead is 207.2 which means that on an atomic level a single atom of Bismuth is technically heavier than a lead one!
Yes, I know Lead is heavier due to to its greater density -Density is to do with the atomic structure, which in the case of pure Lead is a face centred cubic arrangement, which allows the atoms to get closer together hence increased density and real world greater weight, where as Bismuth has a rhombohedral lattice structure which is more spaced out hence a lower density and lower compared real world weight with Lead.
Oddly enough Bismuth actually increases its density when its a liquid as the lattice is broken and the atoms can pack in closer together in liquid form (density goes up to over 10 g/cm3 depending on temperature, pressure etc.) and of course when you alloy lead with lighter metals this will change its overall density too, depending on what you add. A Bismuth alloy suitable for bullet making might well be heavier than a Lead one - it will depend on what you add and mix into them of course.
The jacket on a bullet can also be a copper alloy itself. Some "copper" jackets are made from what is referred to as "guilding metal" - common ones such as 90/10 copper/zinc for example could be used as it has better ductile properties when cold forming than just copper - its technically a brass really.
But what do I know - I apparently live in another universe, far far away where such things are different and I know nothing and I am wrong about everything.
I would say people should be a bit less arsey with their implied comments - you know who you are.
Comment - "I stopped reading when I got here." , I understand why you said that -
but it was a typo. I would chance to say I know more about the chemistry and properties of low melting point alloys than almost anyone, both from being an ACTUAL working professional chemist back in the day and in this specific field I might add - for years - and
helping develop real alloys actually used in ammo production, plus doing personal testing decades ago with these very alloys making bullets before any of you even thought of doing this. What expertise do my detracters/commentators have one might wonder?
Clearly scoring cheap jibe points on a typo from a fellow shooter is more useful and productive than behaving like reasonable people, on what I mistakenly thought was a friendly forum. That the internet for you.
I was only trying to help and take an interest in what you were talking about as I used to do this very thing it for a living. Perhaps this why the country is going to the dogs - no manners anymore, no simple " are you sure that's right old boy?" queries.
Reward for proffering info and taking an interest = rude schoolboy type implication of ignorance and stupidity.
You could have just dropped me line querying the info and I would have realised my mistake, felt silly and corrected the post. Ah well ,never mind, I won't bother again - pearls before swine as they say.
As for the Barnes Bullets I was unaware someone actually has tried this, it makes sense as I said previously rather than just all copper which is expensive, doesn't expand all that well at lower velocities with traditional designs and thus limits use to shorter range for ethical kills for hunting as I understand it. A heavy zero lead alloy core on a copper jacket would make more sense both in terminal effect manufacture and possibly even cost. I will look at the Barnes Varmint Grenade bullets as we are all going to have to go lead free at some point for a lot of our shooting quite soon.
