I was not clear in my post, of course I would not expect names etc, just what sort of people are carrying out the culls. My point being is it being done to the standards the general public would expect of the RSPB, is it a proper management cull etc, remember P has brought this general licence fiasco about and claimed that a lot of the killing of birds is just vandalism and not "proper management" my question is have the RSPB been doing exactly what P has been whinging about. If anyone has evidence that is the case they should make it known.
RSPB who does their shooting Mr Packham
- Thread starter Tazz
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LeftHandGuy
Well-Known Member
Really, the RSPB are one of the least hostile popular conservation groups with regards to animal management. They may not be UK stalking's greatest cheerleader, but they are no enemy, and potentially quite a good ally precisely because they do recognize the need to do things such as control pest species.
We shouldn't be too quick to tar them with the same brush as LACS, RSPCA etc. They engage with and utilize the stalking community and we need to foster that and similar relationships if we want stalking to survive in the UK.
We shouldn't be too quick to tar them with the same brush as LACS, RSPCA etc. They engage with and utilize the stalking community and we need to foster that and similar relationships if we want stalking to survive in the UK.
You are viewing the RSPB from only one perspective, that of stalking. I can assure you they are single minded in only having an interest in certain species of birds and if other species are culled to benefit birds they are happy to do it. If you were a pigeon or crow shooter your veiws would be different, in my opinion they are only interested in the conservation of one species. I have had first hand experience of these a holes and I can assure you they are far from the benign organisation you think they are.
This comes under what the so called ORGS should be publicising about Packham and his cronies hypocrisy ,so their followers can see how false they are and how they are being used to fund the lying swines agenda
.Do as we say not as we do ,why o why David and co from BASC are you not highlighting this to Jo public ,here is your ammunition take it and use it they would without a hesitation come on time to attack .They use ,lies half truths and twisted facts here is undeniable truth to use against them ,nothing to backpeddle out of come on do it
.Do as we say not as we do ,why o why David and co from BASC are you not highlighting this to Jo public ,here is your ammunition take it and use it they would without a hesitation come on time to attack .They use ,lies half truths and twisted facts here is undeniable truth to use against them ,nothing to backpeddle out of come on do it
LeftHandGuy
Well-Known Member
That is to an extent true. Their focus is birds, my own is deer. But they have a large membership of people who believe that in supporting the RSPB they are doing something for conservation (and in their own way they are).
We won’t change a single mind by attacking or trying to embarrass them. The RSPB isn’t a pro-hunting organization, but it is one that utilizes hunters for elements of its own conservation work.
You are correct that it isn’t a (wholly or even mostly ) benign organization, but it is infinitely better than most, has a clear focus and is not a declared enemy of shooting in the UK.
John Gryphon
Well-Known Member
I read this link below and find it hard to imagine the controls over ones land.
Quote If you are the occupier of land you can shoot rabbits on your land during the day and can authorise in writing one other person to do so. That person must be part of your household, one of your staff, or be employed for reward to specifically control the rabbits.
www.gov.uk
Quote If you are the occupier of land you can shoot rabbits on your land during the day and can authorise in writing one other person to do so. That person must be part of your household, one of your staff, or be employed for reward to specifically control the rabbits.
Rabbits: how to control numbers
How to control rabbits on your property or business using traps, snares and other methods.
countrryboy
Well-Known Member
Sorry but they are 100% an enemy off shooting u say only concerned with birds but why only certaain birds??
Usually BoP and generally speaking most raptors are at highest populations since record began..
Where's all the appeals for wonders, song birds or garden birds many are red listed and many are down 75+% since 80s
Where are all appeals about the damage cats are causing???
Sorry but the rsp b has long since had any positive effect onukbird populations and probably does more harm than good.
Most recent conservation initiatives in recent times have came from the GWCT or songbird survival.
Attacking the rsp b mibbee isn't the right thing to do in this instance, we should be really praising and publishing just wot they kill and why and the positive results it has.
Because they keep this hushed up many local nature reserves refuse to do any predator control.
I doubt anyone will ever own up for the pair of Eagle Owls which allegedly didn't survive long when nesting on a reserve, many a keeper has had the door booted in for a lot less
Or do they ever admit when a heavily monitored nest is deserted it could be the monitoring, more HH nest and fledge successfully now in eng on grouse moors, yet never mentioned as doesn't suit there agenda/fundraising campaign
You seem to be applauding them for supporting the killing of deer because it's your " thing" how would you feel if they decided that stalking should be banned because some rifle shooters have killed raptors, which is a fact, yet you seem content that they want to see grouse shooting banned because of a few bad eggs there. They deliberately ignore what most grouse Moore keepers do to enhance the ground nesting bird population and tmost definately are a declared enemy of shooting just not of " your" shooting. Most of these so called conservation organisations has its own agenda, some are smarter than others at how they present to joe public, and most are hypocritical in what they do and where possible this should be exposed to the public who should see them in their true light.
foxdropper
Well-Known Member
If birds die off ,donations will only rise .Therein lies the answer and nicely done by Fieldsport Tv
LeftHandGuy
Well-Known Member
I'm not applauding them at all - but I think it would be a mistake to regard the whole organisation as hostile. It would also be shame to waste the opportunity to cultivate a potential ally with regard to the role that management plays in wildlife conservation. It is probably inevitable that many people who think of themselves as anti-shooting would join organizations like the RSPB.
I'm curious - what do you think their hypocritical hidden agenda is? I'm not asking this to wind you up - I don't agree with everything they say or do, but I'm reasonably convinced that everything they do do is because they want to see wild bird life in the UK flourish - which is an outcome we want as well surely?
Unlike many other orgs', RSPB is at least willing to speak to us. Have a listen to this:
Episode 62
Admittedly that's from October 2017 and the organization may have become more hard-line in the last year and half or so
I think @countrryboy has it right (even if he disagrees with me about RSPB's stance on shooting)
Showing how we are a necessary part of the outcomes that they want, and showing that we want those same outcomes as well - that's got to be a better path for us to take.
Anyway, I have to work this weekend unfortunately, so I'm going to leave this now and simply say good luck to all of you!
Guy
countrryboy
Well-Known Member
I agree with her that they are hypocrites of the highest order.
They keep there vermin control hidden yet are behind this GL fiasco.
Look at some off there history, when canda and greylag geese were added to GL they never complained only shooting orgs raised an eyebrow. They would be 1 of the biggest users off special licences in the past, great for then as no paper trail.
Even carrying out predator control without ever mentioning the massive damage cats do
Don't get me wrong plenty off decent employees at ground level but it is now rank rotten at the higher levels.
Yes they may make odd sound bites favourable to shooting but it really is only so they can stab u in the back that bit deeper.
Mind they showed up at a big game fair a few days after launching a scathing attack on shooting as if it was the norm.
U wait till August time I bet they do the usual and come out with some dead BoP allegedly from a moor even if happened months earlier all for PR.
Same with the way they carried on over LAG and lead in food.
Wouldn't agree to the HH recovery plan due to brood management yet it's common throughout Europe.
30 years ago ur approach would off been spot on, I've been around long enough now to realise wot a 2 faced bunch of hypocritical back stabbers they are.
Left if you give them benefit of doubt and they really do care about birds and not just raptors.
Where's al the appeals for other birds??? Look at BTO figures any amount off species 75+% down yet never mentioned ( and many are garden birds that folk could actually help, bit off feed and trapping some corvids and cats with bells on) yet they consistently carry on with raptors despite numbers at highest levels ever
U forgot about the birds campaign does raise a lot off valid points.
If I was lucky enough to own a decent bit of ground I would ban them from it,.
I know I get strange looks on wildlife trust committee meeting when I refuse to go to there reserves on away days, I refuse to give them 1 single penny.
Lefty if u really want to join a proper wildlife charity either join Songbird Survival or GWCT both cracking orgs doing a lot of good practical conservation work, unlike that lot.
They keep there vermin control hidden yet are behind this GL fiasco.
Look at some off there history, when canda and greylag geese were added to GL they never complained only shooting orgs raised an eyebrow. They would be 1 of the biggest users off special licences in the past, great for then as no paper trail.
Even carrying out predator control without ever mentioning the massive damage cats do
Don't get me wrong plenty off decent employees at ground level but it is now rank rotten at the higher levels.
Yes they may make odd sound bites favourable to shooting but it really is only so they can stab u in the back that bit deeper.
Mind they showed up at a big game fair a few days after launching a scathing attack on shooting as if it was the norm.
U wait till August time I bet they do the usual and come out with some dead BoP allegedly from a moor even if happened months earlier all for PR.
Same with the way they carried on over LAG and lead in food.
Wouldn't agree to the HH recovery plan due to brood management yet it's common throughout Europe.
30 years ago ur approach would off been spot on, I've been around long enough now to realise wot a 2 faced bunch of hypocritical back stabbers they are.
Left if you give them benefit of doubt and they really do care about birds and not just raptors.
Where's al the appeals for other birds??? Look at BTO figures any amount off species 75+% down yet never mentioned ( and many are garden birds that folk could actually help, bit off feed and trapping some corvids and cats with bells on) yet they consistently carry on with raptors despite numbers at highest levels ever
U forgot about the birds campaign does raise a lot off valid points.
If I was lucky enough to own a decent bit of ground I would ban them from it,.
I know I get strange looks on wildlife trust committee meeting when I refuse to go to there reserves on away days, I refuse to give them 1 single penny.
Lefty if u really want to join a proper wildlife charity either join Songbird Survival or GWCT both cracking orgs doing a lot of good practical conservation work, unlike that lot.
countrryboy
Well-Known Member
Also the way they behaved at Langholm 2, only stakeholder group to disagree with any findings.
On other committee they regularly 'leak' documents or usually partial documents or mis leading/false that suit them early to get maximum publicity then when full story comes out no one cares.
For me they're equivalent to an ill natured farmyard collie/terrier that can be nice when it wants took, but as soon as u begin to trust it and turn it back on it equally happy to bite ur ar@e.
How many times do u get bitten yet still turn ur back on the dog?????
On other committee they regularly 'leak' documents or usually partial documents or mis leading/false that suit them early to get maximum publicity then when full story comes out no one cares.
For me they're equivalent to an ill natured farmyard collie/terrier that can be nice when it wants took, but as soon as u begin to trust it and turn it back on it equally happy to bite ur ar@e.
How many times do u get bitten yet still turn ur back on the dog?????
Chasey
Well-Known Member
We use the RSPB cull numbers in our advertising along with articles like this
First in-depth UK deer census highlights need for increased culls
Current approaches to deer management are failing to control a serious and growing problem, according to new research by the University of East Anglia (UEA).
Kill Bambi to Protect UK Woodlands and Biodiversity, Deer Researchers Say
Scientists urge cull for half of Britain's deer population because of huge underestimate of population numbers.
www.ibtimes.co.uk
That is only the case where the owner / occupier of the land is not the owner of the sporting rights. Normally, the only person who can hunt or shoot on a piece of land is the owner of the sporting rights, which is not necessarily the same person who owns the land. However, the ground game act overrides this by giving the occupier the inalienable right to control rabbits, regardless of who owns the sporting rights (and even if the title deeds state that rabbits are exclusively reserved to the owner of the sporting rights). There are conditions though, and that's what you were quoting.I read this link below and find it hard to imagine the controls over ones land.
Quote If you are the occupier of land you can shoot rabbits on your land during the day and can authorise in writing one other person to do so. That person must be part of your household, one of your staff, or be employed for reward to specifically control the rabbits.
Rabbits: how to control numbers
How to control rabbits on your property or business using traps, snares and other methods.
If the owner / occupier is also the owner of the sporting rights then all that rigmarole about day time only, and members of the household, etc, doesn't apply.
John Gryphon
Well-Known Member
As an Aussie having freedom of access etc I just dont get this ownership/sporting rights that you blokes have there.
I do understand selling 'rights' to a syndicate or guide of course but some of your rules........
Your fishing rights also are so bad (to me) In Vic we have access to any natural waterway,we have a chain (22 yards/20 m`s) on either side of such creeks and rivers so as to either fish or ramble.
I do understand selling 'rights' to a syndicate or guide of course but some of your rules........
Your fishing rights also are so bad (to me) In Vic we have access to any natural waterway,we have a chain (22 yards/20 m`s) on either side of such creeks and rivers so as to either fish or ramble.
It stems from the days when many farms were tenanted from big estates. When the estates were then broken up - for whatever reason, death duties etc - and the farms were sold to the tenants, the original landowning family retained the sporting rights. Subsequently they may have sold these rights to someone else.
It's an archaic hangover from the feudal days. Personally, I think it shouldn't be possible to separate ownership of the land from ownership of the sporting rights. It should be at the landowner's discretion who shoots on the land. Believe me, it's a total nightmare having someone else owning a concurrent right to your property, able to access all parts of it at all times for sporting purposes, and not being allowed to do any shooting yourself (except rabbits, as above). In fact, you could be prosecuted for poaching on your own land! It stinks.
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You are aware packham is the Vice President of the RSPB aren’t you?
Where can I get the full report?
Cheers.
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