Ruger number 1 group size expectations
- Thread starter Zetter
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You have put forward no evidence say "this is patently not true” as regards the potential accuracy level of the .303 cartridge - when compared to similar others.
Conversely there's plenty of evidence, including competition results etc spanning decades both at short range & long range (e.g. 200 yard Schuetzen through to 1200 yard Match Rifle) - as to how accurate it can be when use in rifles capable of fine accuracy, rather than military rifles. To highlight the success & demonstrated accuracy potential of the cartridge isn't “pretending it's anything it isn't” - it's merely using documented results to show the cartridge is on 'a par' with many other similar capacity/calibre rounds. It's nothing special as a cartridge but neither is it the reverse.
I'm not a fan of any particular cartridge but I am a fan of accurate information. It does nobody any good, especially the OP to present old wives tales regarding the .303 being (for some unidentified reason) inherently inaccurate or below par as fact.
180 grain sierra pro hunters at the moment to be fair there isnt masses of choice in .303 for hunting bullets now
tackb
Well-Known Member
Firstly the original claim wasn’t similar others it was any other , important to get your facts right if you absolutely must be right and also insist on making an argument where there is none.
Secondly why is any other cartridge used today when there is no advantage because the 303 (which we are talking about not the other examples you introduced) is every bit as accurate as any other cartridge.
You seem personally offended by my comments about the 303 , if for some weird reason that’s the case why don’t you pm me so you don’t derail this posters thread ?
I don’t suppose you could list all the inaccurate calibres so that we could avoid them?
From my old faithful No1 MkIII* SMLE, with target barrel and 4x Redfield, I was getting 1.5" at 100yd for 5 shots using Norma 130gn and 150gn. Nice bullets with good expansion/disintegration. Those became unobtainable about the turn of the century and I changed to Sierra Pro Hunter in 125gr. This was before range finders and there was a benefit to maximising velocity for flat shooting.
With the SPH 125 and a 2-7x Leupold, my groups went out to 2-3" over a range of different powder weights. Doing ladder testing with AR2208 showed no real node pattern, just random statistical variability due to using only 5 shot groups. I tried 150gn Pro Hunters and things improved a bit, to more like 2". They were closer to the original 174gr the barrel would have been made for.
An outside the square suggestion would be to try say .308 Nosler Ballistic Tips which would greatly improve terminal performance, given it is a hunting rifle. Do a bit of research into the old practice of shooting .308 bullets in the .303 Brit. You may need to find paper books as it was before the internet. Ruger might also be able to advise.
With the SPH 125 and a 2-7x Leupold, my groups went out to 2-3" over a range of different powder weights. Doing ladder testing with AR2208 showed no real node pattern, just random statistical variability due to using only 5 shot groups. I tried 150gn Pro Hunters and things improved a bit, to more like 2". They were closer to the original 174gr the barrel would have been made for.
An outside the square suggestion would be to try say .308 Nosler Ballistic Tips which would greatly improve terminal performance, given it is a hunting rifle. Do a bit of research into the old practice of shooting .308 bullets in the .303 Brit. You may need to find paper books as it was before the internet. Ruger might also be able to advise.
HonestJohn
Well-Known Member
I’d say 1-1.5”’groups are perfectly good for stalking up to 150yds if putting it in the kill zone.
Many manufacturers pride themselves on a 1”
Guarantee. Not many years ago 1” groups was seen as a success when finding ammo that worked. Not many can actually shoot a 1” group, maybe your rifle is better than you. Many target shooters have spent thousands on custom rifles, hoping for 1/2” moa groups. There’s a weird obsession, nearly OCD these days on group size for stalking deer that have a large chest kill zone. It’s easy to waste money chasing dreams. Blondes are better. Speed kills. Etc you’re welcome
Many manufacturers pride themselves on a 1”
Guarantee. Not many years ago 1” groups was seen as a success when finding ammo that worked. Not many can actually shoot a 1” group, maybe your rifle is better than you. Many target shooters have spent thousands on custom rifles, hoping for 1/2” moa groups. There’s a weird obsession, nearly OCD these days on group size for stalking deer that have a large chest kill zone. It’s easy to waste money chasing dreams. Blondes are better. Speed kills. Etc you’re welcome
tackb
Well-Known Member
Well that’s a toughie since it’s qualified by the accuracy expectationsI don’t suppose you could list all the inaccurate calibres so that we could avoid them?
For example if your 6ppc was grouping 1.5’’ at 100m you’d think something was wrong but that would be eminently acceptable for a 600 nitro express (or even a 303)
I’m not bashing the 303 , I have one (a P14) I’d go as far to say I love the 303 in it’s many iterations so hopefully the fudds upon reading that may put the lynching rope back in shed ?
And I would still love a number 1 in 303 Brit…..
Yes indeed, and what it boils down to is horses for courses, the actual rifle build; build quality, build style, cost, recoil, etc. and not what accuracies the cartridge is capable of when the human factor is eliminated.
Having owned 5 Number 1 in several variants my best one will do 3/10 for 5 shots the worst did.75 for 5 shots. None were in 303. You might add a small o ring that goes on the fore ened screw effectively free-floating the fore end. If your 303 does 1.5 consistently I would be happy with that.
303 ? Oh deer, oh deer. I have my smug face on, as I have just done a 0.443 inch 100 yard group, off the wing mirror, with my Sako 75 in 30-06 with 180 grain Speer hot-cor's. I am stoking it to the gunnels with 59.7 grains of Hodgdon Superformance, to give me 2850fps.
Piranha451
Well-Known Member
I have an early for the caliber (1977) No. 1-A in 7x57 which had terrible groups when I used 140-grain bullets. There were a lot of flyers and seemingly no rhyme or reason to the groups. I was disappointed but liked the rifle too much to get rid of it. Somewhere along the line I read to put a rubber washer between the forearm hanger and the barrel which resulted in better groups, at ~2-3"/100 yards and the shots would walk as the barrel warmed up. Upon further investigation, I found the early Rugers in 7x57 had long throats to accommodate the military 175-grain bullets. I then tried the Sellier & Bellot 173-grain SPCE and the groups shrank to 1-2" without any walking. My rifle is not a tack driver by any means, but I am not looking for benchrest accuracy. Also, I do not reload and there are no longer a lot of 7x57 ammo choices in the states anymore. With the exception of the Sellier & Bellot, the other brands cost more per box than a box of 7mm Remington magnum!
In case anyone is interested, here is a link for accuracy tips for the No. 1:
In case anyone is interested, here is a link for accuracy tips for the No. 1:
Not sure why this is relevant tbh different rifle entirely and different calibre? I mean I could put that my Sako 75 in .243 will put down a .3 inch group when I do my part and its motoring along at 2980 fps with 87 grain V max but its not really relevant to this discussion either. Unless this is the old 30 06 is better than 303 discussion which is a topic for another thread.
I started this as its a more unsual rifle in a really unusual caliber for that rifle so I was looking for a rough benchmark on how far it was worth pushing it before I am blowing money and components for no real improvement.
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