Sako 85 accuracy - poor / help?

[Tom D]

Having wasted far more time and money than is rational chasing accuracy problems in a succession of rifles over the last few years, I'm increasingly inclined to believe that this sort of mediocre performance is actually entirely normal.

I suspect a lot lot of manufacturers rely on the fact that very few people test their guns systematically, and are generally happy to shoot a group of 3 and call the shot that goes 2 inches out a flyer, assigning it to shooter error or conditions rather than the gun.

The small proportion who do test systematically are then usually happy to spend more time and money fettling the gun or fine tuning the load. They end up with genuine sub-MOA guns, but only after going well beyond the factory gun.

I can't think of ANY other tool where actual performance falls so far and so frequently short of expectations and advertised performance. If our cars were this erratic, we'd be furious.

This is possibly true, there must be plenty of rifles that do shoot well right out of the box though.
The thing is for the cost of the above rifle a very nice semi custom could be had that will almost certainly group sub moa. Both my centerfires are semi custom, and both cost less than £1500, quite a bit less actually. That's for the donor rifle, barrel labour and everything. And although not a guarantee, any smith worth his salt will stand by his work so if for any reason it doesn't shoot straight I'll bet the smith will get it sorted. Food for thought.....

 

[Mungo]

This is possibly true, there must be plenty of rifles that do shoot well right out of the box though.

There clearly are, though I'm convinced far fewer than we like to believe (again, because so few people test systematically). But I think whether or not they do is almost entirely random, and the amount you pay or the brand makes almost no difference. A cheap and rough sub-£500 Howa seems just as likely (or unlikely) to shoot as a £1500+ Sako.

But you're probably right about semi-custom guns - at least with a good smith. The trick there is finding the smith!

 

[GSP84]

Well after a few hours testing and scratching heads at the excellent Calton Moor underground tunnel facility with Mike Dickinson I have a Sako Carbonlight that shoots 1" or below. It required a torque of the action bolts which were not to specification, removal of the moderator spigot and a drop down to 123gr .308 Sako Gamehead. Definetely happier than yesterday!!

As always can't recommend the Mikes facilities enough, perfect comfortable sterile environment for testing, and mike has probably forgotten more than most people even know. Nice to meet the other SD members there this evening. Nice and centrally located for easy reach for most of the UK.

Calton Moor Range | Shooting Range

 

[Dalua]

Good stuff! I've also found Mike and Calton Moor helpful - especially for getting a wind-zero.

The action-screw torque I can understand - but what about the moderator spigot?

 

[GSP84]

I could be using the wrong terminology, but on my Stalon w110 which goes over the barrel there is a spacer type piece which fills the gap between the over barrel part of the moderator and the barrel itself. That's the part that has been removed.

 

[Dalua]

I could be using the wrong terminology, but on my Stalon w110 which goes over the barrel there is a spacer type piece which fills the gap between the over barrel part of the moderator and the barrel itself. That's the part that has been removed.

Ah - I think that is what's known as a bushing. Had it perhaps not opened up enough, so that it was actually touching the barrel, I wonder? There's meant to be an gap between the bush and the barrel, as described here http://media.stalonsilencer.com/2015/11/assembly-instructions-for-weapons-technicians-2015-11-19.pdf the idea being (I think) that the bush stops a whack on the mod risking a bend at the thread by limiting the distance the back of the mod can move.

I have spigots on two rifles on which I use ASE Northstar mods. They look like this http://jacksonrifles.com/zz-silencers/techinfo.htm#threads

 

[BuckarooUK]

...

 

[ashray]

glad its sorted ,now go and stalk some deer,good luck.

 

[CarlW]

Well done for persisting. Really glad you have got it shooting nicely.

By the way, I always bin the moderator bushing. Have never installed one and never needed one (although I will perhaps change my tune if I ever clout it really hard on something).

Enjoy the rifle and I hope the stalking goes well.

 

[Jemscudy]

Agree with the SAKO 123gr gameheads

 

[GSP84]

First blood for my replacement Sako Carbonlight this evening, taking a nice little Roe cull buck. This was probably the shortest stalk ever, but that's the way it goes sometimes.


150m from the car this buck pops his head up from the long grass just 20m in front of me. He stood staring for quite a while before a neck shot presented itself.


The deer here do a lot of damage to the crops and young trees, but because of the remoteness they also attract a lot of dog men who chase them down with a horrible death and waste the meat.

happy landowner

 

[ckwoodland]

Alls well that ends well

 

[martin c]

Hi I ve a sako 85 from new and struggled a little to get sub 1" with many factory loads. However I ve settled on Hornday 150 gr sst which always group sub 1" and sometimes half that with a cold clean barrel. I zero 25 mm high at 100 which is a 160 m zero. I also found the 150 gr softpoints very good too.
The other load was the federal premium 150 gr but these were expensive. Hope this helps. the only other thing is to consider :

150g.308 load goes: try 46 grains of
Vihtavouri N140.

this works very well. Hope this helps. Martin

 

[Irish Bob]

Well after a few hours testing and scratching heads at the excellent Calton Moor underground tunnel facility with Mike Dickinson I have a Sako Carbonlight that shoots 1" or below. It required a torque of the action bolts which were not to specification, removal of the moderator spigot and a drop down to 123gr .308 Sako Gamehead. Definetely happier than yesterday!!

As always can't recommend the Mikes facilities enough, perfect comfortable sterile environment for testing, and mike has probably forgotten more than most people even know. Nice to meet the other SD members there this evening. Nice and centrally located for easy reach for most of the UK.

Calton Moor Range | Shooting Range

I can only endorse what you have said. Great facilities and Mike has an amazing knowledge of riflesmithing.

 

[Bestman]

I bought a Carbonlight in .308. At 80m it produced 3 inch groups with Sako 123s. Checked the usual, no joy, didn’t bother checking any other ammo as I thought it was just a bit too wild. Gave it back to shop who sent it to GMK. When they still hadn’t heard anything from GMK after a few weeks they gave me my cash back. I was quite surprised by the whole business, I thought Sakos were posh Tikkas, and my T3 shoots 1/2 inch groups all day long.

 

[flying felix]

I’ve had to bite the bullet on mine (25-06 finlight) and opt for it being rebarrelled. Right from the word go (brand new) it’s been problematic, not helped by me having it threaded before shooting it. Never been able to get the group consistently below 1.5 MOA, and more often than not, more like 2MOA+. At times also produces split groups. Each time I think I’ve solved the issue, it starts again. With a Harris Bipod, home loads and a PMII scope, there should be no excuse for not getting a sub 1MOA group. Unfortunately, having the barrel threaded removed any possibility of me sending it back. So after 18 months of fighting I’ve given up and got a Smith to order a new varmint barrel. Knowing that I can keyhole at 100m, I know that it’s not the nut behind the butt and I’ll only be happy with a rifle that’s capable of outperforming me.

Thought I'd give you an update:
The rifle was given to Rank Rifles in Omagh who fitted a Krieger barrel. This was what I was typically experiencing with the old factory barrel:

View attachment 20171007_193917.jpg

To this with the new barrel:

View attachment 20171007_193941.jpg

Which I'm happy with because of the gusting wind on the day. It was that bad you had trouble holding the rifle steady. A week later I was able to shoot a 13mm 3 rd group with factory ammo.

 

[User00033]

I bought a Carbonlight in .308. At 80m it produced 3 inch groups with Sako 123s. Checked the usual, no joy, didn’t bother checking any other ammo as I thought it was just a bit too wild. Gave it back to shop who sent it to GMK. When they still hadn’t heard anything from GMK after a few weeks they gave me my cash back. I was quite surprised by the whole business, I thought Sakos were posh Tikkas, and my T3 shoots 1/2 inch groups all day long.

I too had the same impression of Sakos until very recently. Nice rifles, love the timbered L461 Vixens and L579 Foresters, the 75s in general. They are still very highly prized here, treasured even, especially the Vixen, with its legendary role in the 1970s deer cullings days.

There's been a dramatic drop in the attitude towards Sakos in my little network. Word has got out that the 85s are a mixed bag and not worth the premium over the Tikka. It's a very recent shift in perception. Word is there's something afoot with the No.1 contour fluted barrels. Bad batch maybe, not picked up and distributed far and wide. I asked my gunsmith about it last week and he mentioned that he'd rebarreled 3 or 4 lightweight Sakos in the past couple of years. I don't think Nathan Foster has helped perceptions much because he's been pretty down on them for a while now.

I suspect that the Tikka Superlite has the same barrel as the Sako Carbonlight, but the gunsmith reckons the Tikka Hunter fluted barrel is a No.2 or No.3 contour. Will be interesting to hear if anyone is experiencing similar problems with the Superlites.

 

[GSP84]

I thought I’d revisit this thread now my replacement is well bedded in.

I missed for the very first time with this rifle last weekend... so nipped up to the brilliant controlled environment of the Calton Moor Range in Derbyshire this evening to check zero and shot a 0.25” 3 shot group... twice!

I still have no idea how I missed that little roe doe... but I’m back in love with my Sakos

I also took my little .17hmr a long for the ride to check the zero, it was miles out as I suspected, but also shot several nice 0.25” groups.

I’m looking for a 22-250 at the moment and was thinking of trying something different... it will probably end up being another Sako now haha

 

[rem284]

I still have no idea how I missed that little roe doe

Dont worry lots of us have the same question at times and I am sure it will happen again

 

[User00033]

I’m looking for a 22-250 at the moment and was thinking of trying something different... it will probably end up being another Sako now haha

Don't go there, get a faster twist than Sako's 1:14". Even a 1:12" opens up a lot of new possibilities. The 1:10" and 1:9" models coming out these days are highly desirable, you can shoot everything from a Sierra BlitzKing 40gr to a TMK 69gr.