Donnachaidh
Well-Known Member
Thinking about getting a Sako 85 stainless synthetic in 30-06; I've read on here about ejection problems; does this affect all action lengths or just certain ones? Thanks.
Sako 85 Ejection Problems?
- Thread starter Donnachaidh
- Start date
A lot depends on scope and mount choices
bigger the objective and thinner the tube the better the clearance
bigger the objective and thinner the tube the better the clearance
antsa
Well-Known Member
I have four 85's. Two in XS actions (.223) and two in S actions (.260 Rem and .308 Win). My scopes all have 30mm tubes and two of them, one on each action, have 50mm objectives. The other two have 32mm objectives. The base and ring combos were chosen according to Sako's recommendations. I have never had an ejection problem with these. That said, I have read of and seen videos of, extracted cases hitting some part of the scope on their way out resulting in scratched scopes and dinged necks. No information on exactly how the scopes were mounted was provided. Anyway it seems as if the problem does exist but I don't know if it is only the larger action sizes that are effected.
IIRC there is an extensive thread on this issue on the 24hourcampsite forum. I've also read of a Sako owner in Queensland, Australia who had the problem and he diagnosed it to being the extractor claw not holding the case head tight enough against the bolt face. He made his own replacement claw with a much tighter tolerance and that fixed his issue. Could it be that sometimes the involved parts are all at the "wrong" end of the tolerance range and you get the problems? Who knows?
Cheers
IIRC there is an extensive thread on this issue on the 24hourcampsite forum. I've also read of a Sako owner in Queensland, Australia who had the problem and he diagnosed it to being the extractor claw not holding the case head tight enough against the bolt face. He made his own replacement claw with a much tighter tolerance and that fixed his issue. Could it be that sometimes the involved parts are all at the "wrong" end of the tolerance range and you get the problems? Who knows?
Cheers
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Plenty to choose from in that price bracket so don't compromise on the scope or set up you want (and that fits you), to get an 85.
Fisheruk100
Well-Known Member
I have a Sako 85 in 6.5x55. Never had a problem with anything. First class rifle.
Essex stalker
Well-Known Member
I've got 3 of them, 308 with a S&B on, 243 with a Z6i (5 - 30) on and .223 with a drone pro on, never had an issue with any of them. They do what they say on the box and do it faultlessly
I have a Sako 85 stainless in 30.06, and it did have ejection issues: one in 4 ejections failed and shell lay back down on magazine preventing the standard quick reload after first shot. Case necks were dented. Slow mo' filming revealed that the steepish angle of ejection fouled the windage turret on the Zeiss Duralyt scope. I reckoned if I could have moved the scope back an inch, the ejecting shell would have cleared. But eye relief said no to that idea. So what I did was spun the scope 90 degrees in the mounts such that the windage turret is sited at top and erstwhile elevation turret is on the non ejection side of rifle. The duplex crosshairs look no different, and my windage turret now controls elevation. seemples
With the longer actions/cases you need sometimes to be careful with your choice of optilocks, my 7mm rem mag with low mounts, would sometimes not clear the case, I to noticed that the case was getting dented at the front of the case itself and was on occasion connecting with the scope so. Medium mounts and the problem is no more.
waimahana
Member
I know this is now an old thread, however, I can share how I resolved the Sako ejection issue that seems to plauge a number of 75 and 85 model Sako rifles and hope others may find this useful.
How I fixed my Sako 75 ejection issue:
I resolved this problem in about 1 hour and at no cost.
In my experience, long actions (30-06, 270, etc) seem more commonly affected whereas short actions (.308, .243) appear to be less affected. My Sako 75 .308 has give many years of service without ever failing to eject cases perfectly.
In contrast, my Sako 75 .30-06 used to eject the case vertically upwards into the base of the scope and occasionally it would come to rest in the magazine on top of the next round which was really frustrating. I searched the internet for a solution without success. So I decided to do something about it myself.
I tried .30-06 cases in my Sako 75 .308 rifle and still had the same ejection issues whereas it works perfectly with .308 cases.
I tried 9.3x62 cases in my Sako 75 .30-06 rifle and only occasionally had ejection issues.
I tried .308 cases in my Sako 75 .30-06 rifle and had no ejection issues, so I knew it must be something to do with the cartridge.
The rim thickness of a .308 case is 1.37mm
The rim thickness of a 9.3x62 case is 1.30mm
The rim thickness of a .30-06 case is 1.2mm
There seems to be a relationship between the rim thickness and ejection issues i.e. thinner rims lead to ejection issues. If you seat a case in the bolt face you will see there is more slop for cases with a thinner rim. Seems Sako has gone for the 'one extractor size fits all' approach - presumably to save costs.
So..... I needed to reduce the amount of slop that the extractor held the .30-06 case so the extractor would have a tighter grip on the case (at least as tight as it holds a .308 case). My options were:
1) either build up the under-side lip of the extractor;
2) seat the extractor deeper in the bolt somehow, or,
3) compress the extractor to reduce its overall length.
Options 1 and 2 seemed very difficult, so I chose option 3.
I removed the extractor from the bolt face of my .30-06 and with all the skill of a high-precision swiss watch maker.....I beat it with a hammer! Actually, I placed the extractor vertically with the flat near the round bit on the sharp right-angle edge of an anvil and used a hammer to very carefully slightly compress the extractor so when fitted back into the bolt, the extractor had a tight grip on the cartridge case.
If you do this make sure to closely monitor the amount you compress the extractor with a good set of calipers and repeatedly try the extractor in the bolt. If you overdo it the cartridge will not align straight with the chamber, and.....you will need to buy a new extractor - not cheap. Also make sure the hammer impacts the extractor square on - not on an angle. Hammering may create a very small burr on the top of the claw and you may need to gently file a small amount off the inner top edge of the extractor claw so the case slides easily into the bolt face.
Actually this is a really easy process and can be done by anyone with basic handyman abilities (i.e. anyone who can use a hammer). The extractor does not look any different compared to an unaltered extractor - it's just compressed a by a couple of hundred microns.
My .30-06 now extracts and ejects cases perfectly EVERY time. Cases eject horizontally rather than vertically and NEVER hit the scope anymore.
Essential tools for this task are: a hammer, a vice or anvil with a sharp right angle edge, a set of calipers, and a bandaid for when you hit your thumb.
Caveat: this worked very well for my rifle but may not work for everyone - attempt it at your own risk. Good luck.
I wonder if the variability between rifles comes from the process they use to put the rifles together (I don't know, but food for thought):
If the bolt extractor hole and channel is milled into the bolt head and THEN the barrelled action is correctly head-spaced by milling material out of the bolt face. This would account for the variability in how well the extractor holds the cartridge case, and the variability between rifles.
i.e. good design with incorrect implementation. Some Sako 75 rifles a have this ejection problem, however, the issue is allegedly more prevalent with sako 85 rifles. Beretta acquired Sako in 2000. The Sako model 75 persisted until introduction of the model 85 in 2006, so later model 75's might be affected by the ejection issue.
In my experience the first thing you do after taking over a rival company is look at way to cut costs and improve profitability.
Hence what I believe should be done is adjustment of the extractor to each rifle. This could be achieved by my method (crude but effective - see above), or better still, having a range of extractor sizes and fitting the correct size extractor to each bolt AFTER it is head-spaced, or even better, drill/mill the extractor hole and channel after the barrelled action has been head-spaced.
How I fixed my Sako 75 ejection issue:
I resolved this problem in about 1 hour and at no cost.
In my experience, long actions (30-06, 270, etc) seem more commonly affected whereas short actions (.308, .243) appear to be less affected. My Sako 75 .308 has give many years of service without ever failing to eject cases perfectly.
In contrast, my Sako 75 .30-06 used to eject the case vertically upwards into the base of the scope and occasionally it would come to rest in the magazine on top of the next round which was really frustrating. I searched the internet for a solution without success. So I decided to do something about it myself.
I tried .30-06 cases in my Sako 75 .308 rifle and still had the same ejection issues whereas it works perfectly with .308 cases.
I tried 9.3x62 cases in my Sako 75 .30-06 rifle and only occasionally had ejection issues.
I tried .308 cases in my Sako 75 .30-06 rifle and had no ejection issues, so I knew it must be something to do with the cartridge.
The rim thickness of a .308 case is 1.37mm
The rim thickness of a 9.3x62 case is 1.30mm
The rim thickness of a .30-06 case is 1.2mm
There seems to be a relationship between the rim thickness and ejection issues i.e. thinner rims lead to ejection issues. If you seat a case in the bolt face you will see there is more slop for cases with a thinner rim. Seems Sako has gone for the 'one extractor size fits all' approach - presumably to save costs.
So..... I needed to reduce the amount of slop that the extractor held the .30-06 case so the extractor would have a tighter grip on the case (at least as tight as it holds a .308 case). My options were:
1) either build up the under-side lip of the extractor;
2) seat the extractor deeper in the bolt somehow, or,
3) compress the extractor to reduce its overall length.
Options 1 and 2 seemed very difficult, so I chose option 3.
I removed the extractor from the bolt face of my .30-06 and with all the skill of a high-precision swiss watch maker.....I beat it with a hammer! Actually, I placed the extractor vertically with the flat near the round bit on the sharp right-angle edge of an anvil and used a hammer to very carefully slightly compress the extractor so when fitted back into the bolt, the extractor had a tight grip on the cartridge case.
If you do this make sure to closely monitor the amount you compress the extractor with a good set of calipers and repeatedly try the extractor in the bolt. If you overdo it the cartridge will not align straight with the chamber, and.....you will need to buy a new extractor - not cheap. Also make sure the hammer impacts the extractor square on - not on an angle. Hammering may create a very small burr on the top of the claw and you may need to gently file a small amount off the inner top edge of the extractor claw so the case slides easily into the bolt face.
Actually this is a really easy process and can be done by anyone with basic handyman abilities (i.e. anyone who can use a hammer). The extractor does not look any different compared to an unaltered extractor - it's just compressed a by a couple of hundred microns.
My .30-06 now extracts and ejects cases perfectly EVERY time. Cases eject horizontally rather than vertically and NEVER hit the scope anymore.
Essential tools for this task are: a hammer, a vice or anvil with a sharp right angle edge, a set of calipers, and a bandaid for when you hit your thumb.
Caveat: this worked very well for my rifle but may not work for everyone - attempt it at your own risk. Good luck.
I wonder if the variability between rifles comes from the process they use to put the rifles together (I don't know, but food for thought):
If the bolt extractor hole and channel is milled into the bolt head and THEN the barrelled action is correctly head-spaced by milling material out of the bolt face. This would account for the variability in how well the extractor holds the cartridge case, and the variability between rifles.
i.e. good design with incorrect implementation. Some Sako 75 rifles a have this ejection problem, however, the issue is allegedly more prevalent with sako 85 rifles. Beretta acquired Sako in 2000. The Sako model 75 persisted until introduction of the model 85 in 2006, so later model 75's might be affected by the ejection issue.
In my experience the first thing you do after taking over a rival company is look at way to cut costs and improve profitability.
Hence what I believe should be done is adjustment of the extractor to each rifle. This could be achieved by my method (crude but effective - see above), or better still, having a range of extractor sizes and fitting the correct size extractor to each bolt AFTER it is head-spaced, or even better, drill/mill the extractor hole and channel after the barrelled action has been head-spaced.
...
antsa
Well-Known Member
Very interesting result. Your solution seems to correspond to the Queensland bloke's. The one who made a new, tighter claw.
Cheers
Mmmm. Two well documented cases recorded in some detail just three screen scrolls above your post. So clearly not a myth. Perhaps not common, but real enough on some 85s
i have a 85 with 2 years the only time this issue raises it head is if i am trying to catch the brass and operating the bolt slowly possibly with the ejection port more vertical than ideal , gravity will always prev ale, same with a Remington i have so no i cant say i have a problem with ejection as others have described on here , and was worried at the time i purchased this rifle as there was a lot of complaints , stocks, bedding ,ejection , Beretta have added a lot of bad publicity to what was a very highly tough of rifle, i am delighted with my 85 , but will say if Beretta takes another step from the 75 with the 95 they will be 2 steps in the wrong direction , when something works why do they have to change it ,is it the case that the sako engineers were let go when the takeover was completed ,or is it what the us market requires cheap and cheerful as these rifles are available in the us roughly 33% of what is charged here very hard to put a realistic value on you investment
swift
swift
Scotty99
Well-Known Member
I think the post above about it being an issue with the longer actions, 30-06 was quoted, may be has legs.
As I said never ever had a problem with my .243 or .308. So if it is a problem only with the longer actions it seems wrong to me to tar all 85 actions with the same brush
I remember reading the first test in the swedish Vapentidning the year that the 85 came out. They also had problems with case ejection in the 30-06 that they tested.
As an aside I much prefered the classic stocks on the first of the 85s before they added a small monte carlo. Probably looked too much like a T3. The recoil lug is also something that people comment on.
Dont own an 85 but 2 75s and a M591 and did have a Finnfire.
As an aside I much prefered the classic stocks on the first of the 85s before they added a small monte carlo. Probably looked too much like a T3. The recoil lug is also something that people comment on.
Dont own an 85 but 2 75s and a M591 and did have a Finnfire.
antsa
Well-Known Member
Waimahana's well-documented solution to his extraction/ejection problem above relates to his Sako 75, not the 85. Elsewhere we hear that this issue started with the 85. I have 85's and have never handled a 75. Is there a difference in the extractor and ejector between the 75 and the 85? Pictures of the two would be great 
Cheers
Cheers
I had a problem with a used .204,xs action. No matter how fast or slowly I cycled it,most empty cases fell back in the mag well. Tried a new magazine as I thought it may have been due to a worn spring,but no change.
The shop eventually took it back,but would only agree to resell it for me, took a while but got most of my money back in the end.
I put it down to the calibre,although I had a 75 rebarreled in .204 and never had that problem.
The shop eventually took it back,but would only agree to resell it for me, took a while but got most of my money back in the end.
I put it down to the calibre,although I had a 75 rebarreled in .204 and never had that problem.
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