Sako S20 Magazine

[wytonpjs]

Sako have made a great thing about the new Sako S20’s magazine:

”The durable and reliable double-stacked Cartridge+ magazine of the Sako S20, with its longer maximum cartridge length, was built to support reloaders, safeguard the bullet and to ensure optimal feeding. The magazine is designed in a way that supports the cartridges by the shoulder, leaving some space in front of the cartridge tip in the case. This prevents bullet damage from recoil which can have a serious effect on the ballistics. With the S20, the shots stay precise, wherever your journey takes you”.

However, having now put one alongside the spare Sako 85 SS magazine I’m currently selling here, I‘m getting more disappointed. Not only is it IMHO a retrograde step in material (polymer versus stainless) and significantly, it loses the ability to top load (especially useful when you make safe) but having put my go to Nosler 125g BT home load into both, I’m struck by the fact that there’s not that much more room to load closer to the lands and there is a lot of wasted space at the rear of the mag. Bluntly, it’s dammed big!

Pictures below for you to judge yourselves.......

 

[wytonpjs]

BTW - if anyone else is after a Sako S20 .243/6.5/.308 magazine, Riflemags uk have one 5 round mag left at £39.95 posted. A counter-point to my comments above though is that they are considerably cheaper than the 75/85 ones!

Sako S20 5 round .308 .243 6.5 Creedmoor magazine

Online shop for rifle magazines and accessories based in Nottingham, UK.

riflemags.co.uk

 

[sh1kar]

So if I understand rightly, you have to eject a round and catch it, drop mag, push round back in to mag, close bolt on empty chamber and push mag back into rifle to effectively underload?

S

 

[wytonpjs]

So if I understand rightly, you have to eject a round and catch it, drop mag, push round back in to mag, close bolt on empty chamber and push mag back into rifle to effectively underload?

S

Yes, but I always drop the mag first, then unload the chamber (using the Sako feature that leaves the safety catch applied). Where this differs is that on the 85 you could release the mag but hold it so that it was partially withdrawn, withdrawn the loaded round carefully and let it drop into the mag recess where you could push it back into the magazine, close the bolt onto the empty chamber, and then push the mag back up. Less chance of losing either the round and/or the magazine as both are still in contact with the rifle. The S20 mag is almost identical to my X-Bolt magazine in both size and features but the X-Bolt is for a long-action .270 whereas the S20 mag is the same size for short .243/6.5/.308 rounds.

 

[Heym SR20]

IMHO the best magazine was the old rotary magazine in the Mannlicher Shoeneur rifles that had a rotary spool that was specifically machined for each different cartridge. It is beautifully smooth to use, very easy to top load, to top up and unload chamber and push a round back in. And then to empty it, you open the bolt and press a button and all the cartridges feed into your hand. But it was very expensive to make. Nowadays it would be cheaper using CNC technology. You can pick up a pre-war mannlicher and it will still function as it is meant to.

Next best IMHO is the fixed Mauser type. You top load it, you can add rounds as and when you need, you can push rounds down to close bolt so its under loaded, and when it comes to unloading, you either drop the floor plate, or with a fixed floor plate you either push them out with the bolt - no you don't need to fully close bolt and chamber the rounds, or use the tip of a finger, or cartridge tip to slide them out.

Detachable mags are fine on assault rifles, for a stalking rifle they are just an added complication that gets lost or left behind.

I really am not sure whether modern Polymers will be doing the same in 20, 30 or 50 years time. Yes Polymers have many good properties, and in the applications such as the Glock they work well, but the question is for how long? You can pick up 1911 Pistol that hasn't been much used (ie it is not worn out) that was issued in WW1. It will work absolutely fine today. But look at a 20 year old car - its the Polymer Parts that are the first to break - most polymers decay in property just with a function of time.

 

[sh1kar]

Yes, but I always drop the mag first, then unload the chamber (using the Sako feature that leaves the safety catch applied). Where this differs is that on the 85 you could release the mag but hold it so that it was partially withdrawn, withdrawn the loaded round carefully and let it drop into the mag recess where you could push it back into the magazine, close the bolt onto the empty chamber, and then push the mag back up. Less chance of losing either the round and/or the magazine as both are still in contact with the rifle. The S20 mag is almost identical to my X-Bolt magazine in both size and features but the X-Bolt is for a long-action .270 whereas the S20 mag is the same size for short .243/6.5/.308 rounds.

This must be why I have floor plates. Just pull cartridge back to sit on top of cartridge in magazine Press in and close bolt on empty chamber

That Sako is going to be noisy doing consecutive high seat stalks and lead to some taking (dangerous) shortcuts
S

 

[sh1kar]

Ahh hadn't spotted Heym post

S

 

[User00040]

Not only is it IMHO a retrograde step in material (polymer versus stainless)

Meh, polymer lighter and cheaper to replace... makes sense. Metal (aluminium) mags stopped being a thing a long time ago in AR land (apart from on Retro builds!)

Sako 75/85 mags are stupid heavy for what they are, I prefer the single stack single feed T3 mag myself.

not that much more room to load closer to the lands

Would not recommend chasing the lands anyway, sure a reloader may want to use longer/heavier/higher BC bullets that mean a slightly longer than average COAL, but not outside SAMMI/CIP spec... Does SAKO not still have a 'get out of jail/lawyered up' line saying they only intend their rifles to be used with factory ammo, and preferably that which is loaded by SAKO themselves?

there is a lot of wasted space at the rear of the mag.

A Tikka T3x is starting to sound more and more like the better choice...

Detachable mags are fine on assault rifles, for a stalking rifle they are just an added complication that gets lost or left behind.

'Safety' may play a part in this.

As much as I despise the Blaser design, the fact they make the mag and trigger group into one unit says something on such a 'safety conscious' rifle (talking about the manual cock/de-cock).

You can lose a flooplate spring and follower, which will certainly cost more than a mag... then again losing that part is almost akin to losing a bolt, whoops!

You can pick up 1911 Pistol that hasn't been much used (ie it is not worn out) that was issued in WW1. It will work absolutely fine today. But look at a 20 year old car - its the Polymer Parts that are the first to break - most polymers decay in property just with a function of time.

Ah, the 1911.

As much as I liked the three that I had the privilege of firing, and the fact the design has lasted this long does not make up for the now glaring inadequacies of design.

Given the choice I think the 'plastic fantastic' option is nearly always the better pick, in comparison...

1911

-Mostly hand fitted assembly (can be done masterfully or horribly), a lot of good for price ones come out of the Philippines where manual labour is cheap (have seen this first hand).
-Obsolete trigger/safety system, even if 'reliable' no mainstream organisation will be permitting a 'cocked and locked' (or worse, Israeli) carry. A DA/SA 1911 isn't a 1911.
-Single stack mag...

'Polymer wonders'

-Lighter, easy to 'stipple' for grip to suit hands (no hand cut chequering!)
-Almost exclusively striker fired
-Field replaceable parts

List goes on.

Sure, a 1911 looks and feels better (just like wood stocked and blued steel rifles) but polymer/synthetic is winning the battle by quite a margin.

Polymer can break but it also bends back into shape more readily than metal, sure it isn't great under intense UV exposure but it can't rust, corrode or pit.

There is going to be a positive and negative to every attribute

 

[Heym SR20]

Point taken re Modern Polymer designs. Glocks etc are designed for widespread use for defence purposes for those who want / need a gun that requires minimal training, maintenance and will go bang when trigger is pulled deliberately and not before.

And Ditto for most military type weapons. Cost is often the most pressing criteria.

Now take the Sako S20 - it is designed, built and marketed for the market of hunters and shooters who want an affordable rifle to go and fill a deer tag. They are built to a price point and use a lot of polymers where these can make considerable cost savings.

In the US they are a $1500 rifle and this will come down. In the UK RRP seems to be over £2,000.

i bought my Heym SR20 in 1997 - fitted with Zeiss 4x32 for £1,400. That felt like a lot of money. But for an equivalent rifle today - solid steel and walnut with a good scope you won’t see any change out of £4,000.

Use of Polymers and modern manufacturing do keep prices down and make a good rifle readily available to most hunters.

 

[si_b1979]

Having had a Sako 75 and still have both Sako 85 and Sako S20, the mag in the S20 really gets on my t!ts.

It surprised me how much I miss not being able to just press the round back into the magazine when making safe, especially when in and out of the truck when foxing or crossing fences, up/down high seats etc. I also find that if I don't seat the first round in the magazine perfectly to the right side, it will only take 4 rounds. If that happens, I have to take them all out and start again. Grrr!

Not a biggy, but definitely a backward step in my mind and not what I was expecting when I chopped my Sako 75 .243 in for the S20 in the same calibre...

On the upside though, it's incredibly well balanced, off sticks or free-hand, shoots fantastically and loves all the ammunition I've put through it so far, from 55gr to 100gr and different makes.