That's the point; they won't need it if the vote is no.
Scottish Independence
- Thread starter limey
- Start date
That's the point; they won't need it if the vote is no.
What is all this rush for independance, are we not still in a recession/ depression.
All this energy and drive would be better directed on getting us out of our present situation and not creating a new one.
At school our maths books had the answers to the questions and problems at the back so everyone had all the answers.
What it did not do was show the working, taking you from the problem to the answer in logical and understandable steps.
The SNP has in my opinoin not shown any working just the answers, and anyone can do that.
What they have clearly evidenced is that they cannot responsibly manage a resonably large project such as the tram fiasco in Edinburgh or worse still the building of a Parliament which looks like it was designed and built by a three year old with an inner ear infection.
Get the UK back on track first then we can make an informed decision on who did what they said they would and how well they achieved it.
Lapua 243
All this energy and drive would be better directed on getting us out of our present situation and not creating a new one.
At school our maths books had the answers to the questions and problems at the back so everyone had all the answers.
What it did not do was show the working, taking you from the problem to the answer in logical and understandable steps.
The SNP has in my opinoin not shown any working just the answers, and anyone can do that.
What they have clearly evidenced is that they cannot responsibly manage a resonably large project such as the tram fiasco in Edinburgh or worse still the building of a Parliament which looks like it was designed and built by a three year old with an inner ear infection.
Get the UK back on track first then we can make an informed decision on who did what they said they would and how well they achieved it.
Lapua 243
basil
Distinguished Member
As long as the UK is run by people who are only interested in filling their own pockets the UK will never be back on track.
Wether it`s Cameron, Thatcher, Salmon, Blair or whoever how they can be allowed to walk out of office not having to answer to the calamity they all leave behind is beyond me. Infact our MP`s and PM`s jobs are one of the few jobs where you get paid for failure.
We have nothing left to build a future on.
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procee
Well-Known Member
I wonder what will happen legislation wise if we get independence - originally I believe it was the idea that no party would be likely to wind up with an overall majority in the parliament. This however is not the case and I can't help but feel uneasy at the thought that Holyrood will continue pretty much as is if we were to become independant.
Can you imagine if 'Fat Ec', 'Nic the Fish' and 'Mad Kenny' were vboted back in after independence, with an overall majority? As we currently seem to have no equivalent to the House of Lords then theoretically a party with an overall majority could push through any old nonsense.
Kind of like banning the ownership of private firearms, making every Tuesday compulsory 'pink trousers to work' day and persecuting anyone left in the country who does not agree with their policies.
I could have the wrong end of the stick and little understanding of the systems in place, but for me any of that three remaining in politics after independence is enough to make me want to vote no.
And that's odd, because my grandmother was staunchly in support of a free Scotland and that's prettty much what I was brought up to believe. amazing the effect three people can have on you to change an entire belief in a short space of time.
I could go on and on about things like the ruining of education (which I am involved in - education, not the ruining of it!), but I don't believe any of the current crop of politicians either North of South of the border are actually fit to govern the people, as all they seem interested in is making themselves look good in the media.
Can you imagine if 'Fat Ec', 'Nic the Fish' and 'Mad Kenny' were vboted back in after independence, with an overall majority? As we currently seem to have no equivalent to the House of Lords then theoretically a party with an overall majority could push through any old nonsense.
Kind of like banning the ownership of private firearms, making every Tuesday compulsory 'pink trousers to work' day and persecuting anyone left in the country who does not agree with their policies.
I could have the wrong end of the stick and little understanding of the systems in place, but for me any of that three remaining in politics after independence is enough to make me want to vote no.
And that's odd, because my grandmother was staunchly in support of a free Scotland and that's prettty much what I was brought up to believe. amazing the effect three people can have on you to change an entire belief in a short space of time.
I could go on and on about things like the ruining of education (which I am involved in - education, not the ruining of it!), but I don't believe any of the current crop of politicians either North of South of the border are actually fit to govern the people, as all they seem interested in is making themselves look good in the media.
Pine Marten
Well-Known Member
I think that perhaps setting that as a precondition for doing anything is a recipe for never starting anything new.
nicely put
Also in response to Widow's Son polite response to my rather impolite comment...reasons why now is not the time:-
pound vs Euro - I prefer sterling thanks but we would get the euro and effectively financially governed by Germany...
Euro inteference in everything we do assuming we were accepted into EU membership with much less weight to argue against straight bananas and metric time
Recession isnt a great time to start risky schemes with little idea of the costs involved in the transition when there is little in the bank
IT - OMG where to start :-you will need new IT systems for everything currently shared with the rest of the UK - enormous risky expensive undertaking
and it'll be you and me paying for it for no extra benefit other than it being a separate system to one that exists yahooo what a great idea.
At a time when national institutions are aggregating to save cost on duplicated structures / functions we are considering going the other way. wonder who pays for all that non productive effort again.
Throw in the difficulties for cross border employment, taxation, travel etc to impede bsuinesses staying or setting up here..
then once you think you've solved all that and can make the numbers stack up then tell me its a good idea.
from here it smells of epic fail
a decision made with the heart on things like this risks everything you've worked to build, it risks everyones future and all for the gain of 'freedom' from ..err..oh it will be worse here because Eck has passed a million stupid laws because he can ... oh f***
no shooting
fishing will be next
there will be wind turbines everywhere only they dont actually make economic sense unless subsidised (oh who is paying that now then)
um
there is no moral or legal reason not to be independent, there are a million financial and economic reasons why this is suicidal.
palmer_mike
Well-Known Member
please tell me the million financial reasons, please
and why this is suicidal
change costs money, who do you think pays for all that change to enable splitting of govt and quasi govt organisations, all the IT systems etc?
how good is our S&P rating going to be AAB? I think not => borrowing costs will rise mortgage costs will rise etc etc
why would I want my country to be part of the eurozone after seeing bailout after bailout with those coutries becoming beholden to Germany
what does it cost to create a Scotland defence force and how useful is that likely to be? airforce & navy anyone?costs?
The UK is composed of hundreds of institutions and organisations to make it all work, some already have a Scottish governing body, many wont.
pick anything and drill into it and you find a nest of cost difficulty risk and no discernable benefit other than being separate.
for example vehicle licensing. we likely wont be on the DVLA system so new number plates for every vehicle in Scotland? brilliant idea
will out economy be run using sterling or euro? if its sterling then our rates are set by the bank of England so they set our fiscal policy root, Eure then its basically Germany and to a lesser extent France. go for Scottish Groats and we dont have enough enconomic weight to get good exchange rates or S&P ratings so we end up paying more interest than we do at the moment...good value ? nope
so back to you
why is this not suicidal?
why is this economically a great idea?
why is this financially a great idea?
where is all the money coming from?
we the tax paying public will end up bankrolling this with out taxes and interest payments for generations all so we can compete with iceland.
paul o'
Well-Known Member
I reckon Salmond is calculating that, though losing the vote, the yes turn-out will be sufficient to frighten a cowardly, incurably short-termist Westminster elite into granting devo-max: all the power, none of the responsibility and the English Bastarrrds paying for the lot. Absolute heaven on a plate for the well fed burghers of Holyrood, or to give the place its proper title, as bestowed by Billy Connolly, the most sucessful living Scotsman, The Wee Pretendy Parliament.
If he gets devo-max, Salmond's waistline and his smirk will get so wide he'll explode, so a silver lining of a sort.
If he gets devo-max, Salmond's waistline and his smirk will get so wide he'll explode, so a silver lining of a sort.
Brithunter
Well-Known Member
Perhaps it's time to remove the Scots from Westminster and send them all back to Holyrood where they can make a mess of things oh yes and cut the purse strings too!
widows son
Well-Known Member
Some light reading .
New figures reveal Scotland wealthier than rest of UK since 1980
We may not have everything in place but this report shows at least we're going in the right direction .
New figures reveal Scotland wealthier than rest of UK since 1980
We may not have everything in place but this report shows at least we're going in the right direction .
palmer_mike
Well-Known Member
Or for a slightly different angle
http://www.economist.com/node/21552564
[URL]http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/sep/18/scottish-independence-spending-cut-warning-thinktank[/URL]
http://www.economist.com/node/21552564
[URL]http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/sep/18/scottish-independence-spending-cut-warning-thinktank[/URL]
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In the right direction pre Independance...what about post Independance...
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