Season changes?

[Sol]

You've shot 1 doe in 50 stalks , you need to take up golf or something

Hey If it was that simple too shoot deer I probably wouldn't stalk, I've shot probably 6 in 90~ outings total, Its not terrible odds for someone that owns no FAC and jumps from different properties with zero clue with where the deer are each time I'm up.
Said outings arent always "Deer" 30-40 of those are helping a keeper with pheasants and having the ".270 just encase" I appreciate all the effort over the years to get me onto deer even If most arent successful.

The 50 or so I done this year started in late August, Its a terrible time bucks completely disappeared, sheep everywhere (getting rotated fields almost daily), constant disturbances by farmers, walkers, and so forth, wrong sex's showing, and a completely utterly **** red rut.... It makes sense, not to mention working almost daily and still making it work.

Come by March next year and near every outing will produce, Shooting does and cull bucks.

 

[Tim.243]

I personally would rather shoot does/hinds later than earlier.

Regards Gary

Get that, but later on (as it is open ground) on the bit I shoot then come march they are granted heaver but a lot more switched on

 

[Tim.243]

I honestly believe (and I tell everyone that I meet and believe they have some power in their job to cause change in the law) that the simplest option is to just extend the legal time to TWO hours before and after sunset as a start.

That would work as often when I come back to extract deer they have come out walking past there fallen friend.

 

[Rory]

In my opinion I like the way Scotland is now I like being able to take a buck and or stag if it presents a shot, Yes is not a female so no "10 possible deer taken" If I had shot that animal but one less animal is still one less animal.

Not to mention Its not like we have an advanced system like the US where all our harvests are logged, unless we do something like that OR the government installs governmentally issued managers the deer population is never going to drop as much as we want it too It just wont happen Its near impossible as a individual too make an impact In a world where there's no guidance for our issue besides "shoot"

The UK could benefit with statistics like the US, instead of it did per-rare estate.

I went out 1-3 times a week since august (minus these last 3-ish weeks) and shot one doe... accidentally (not my proudest moment) the only other animal that presented a shot was a calf and a hind, I would of happily taken these animals I dont care about antler one bit but In near 50 stalks.... I'm shooting the first animal that gives me a shot.

Ha ha, definitely don't need/want MORE govt involvement!

 

[Nickb]

If i kill 10 out of 12 seen each night isnt that a reduction?

Not accordingly to Davie , that's an increase

 

[tom308w]

The deer seasons are there for a reason.if you want longer season you will
Have to shoot very small calfs and kids who have lost their mother.does are the key .bust most places the stalkers are only interested in bucks/stags and walking about in the sun.also re the sunrise sunset hours .I'm willing to bet this is being abused a lot by people with day/ night scopes and thermal.who are going in earlier and coming out later.on some areas no matter how many you shoot the vacumn gets filled by deer moving in.

 

[Tim.243]

The deer seasons are there for a reason.if you want longer season you will
Have to shoot very small calfs and kids who have lost their mother.does are the key .bust most places the stalkers are only interested in bucks/stags and walking about in the sun.also re the sunrise sunset hours .I'm willing to bet this is being abused a lot by people with day/ night scopes and thermal.who are going in earlier and coming out later.on some areas no matter how many you shoot the vacumn gets filled by deer moving in.

I shoot right up to the last light which this year has made quite a difference using my NV scope as many times I have left muntjac (shoot quite a lot of them) as a small dark deer against dark wood is very hard to see. I have a swaro z6 so a fair scope but one step and you are in the greens so might have just not have shot it!
Like a lot of things in life the longer you leave it the more time you are kidding yourself you will get it finished on time.
Like cub foxes you leave the chance to shoot them 5 months later their teeth have grown and learnt to hunt.

People get so emotive about young deer but are quite happy eating lamb which could be 12 weeks old or a 38 day old chicken.
Deer get run over all the time so a % will be does with young!

 

[Nickb]

I shoot right up to the last light which this year has made quite a difference using my NV scope as many times I have left muntjac (shoot quite a lot of them) as a small dark deer against dark wood is very hard to see. I have a swaro z6 so a fair scope but one step and you are in the greens so might have just not have shot it!
Like a lot of things in life the longer you leave it the more time you are kidding yourself you will get it finished on time.
Like cub foxes you leave the chance to shoot them 5 months later their teeth have grown and learnt to hunt.

People get so emotive about young deer but are quite happy eating lamb which could be 12 weeks old or a 38 day old chicken.
Deer get run over all the time so a % will be does with young!

Question is ..

If sunset is 6pm you can shoot deer until 7pm.
What if you stalk a deer and get on to it at 7.01 pm would you still shoot it ?

 

[David Barker]

It would still be even higher if those deer hadn't been shot at night.
Problem in Scotland is not enough boots on the ground , a lot more bodies would mean more shot.

Not at all Nickb. I believe lamping only serves one purpose and that's the contractors.

 

[David Barker]

What does work then? I see far more about whilst lamping foxes than when driving the same fields in the day.
If i kill 10 out of 12 seen each night isn't that a reduction?

If you Kill 10 out of 12 seen your a super hero. But it is a reduction and we need a lot more like you.

 

[David Barker]

How can we say it's clearly not working as the change to open season has only been in place for 14 months. The only set of NatureScot returned we have is from April 24, only 5 months after the change.

Before open season all we needed to do was look at the net and understand the conditions. Males have now been getting shot out of season for a few years and the change here is pretty obvious. What we need is a rethink all the tools in the box and an increase in Roe and Sika. Now i know many local lads that do not shoot females as a first call and will choose instead to shoot a pour buck. I include my self in that as i don't have anything to protect on my grounds. Our local butcher has been telling the lads that they will have no males left to shoot in the summer. He butchers over 350 a year and has seen a real change in sex shot towards male,s.

 

[Tim.243]

Question is ..

If sunset is 6pm you can shoot deer until 7pm.
What if you stalk a deer and get on to it at 7.01 pm would you still shoot it ?

Nope A. I signed my cert agreeing to the conditions on it also my FAC is worth more that £1.50 a kg, disappointed but not surprised you asked.

The key to all of it is just because you can, then should you? Answer NO
Tomorrow is another day.

 

[Tim.243]

Before open season all we needed to do was look at the net and understand the conditions. Males have now been getting shot out of season for a few years and the change here is pretty obvious. What we need is a rethink all the tools in the box and an increase in Roe and Sika. Now i know many local lads that do not shoot females as a first call and will choose instead to shoot a pour buck. I include my self in that as i don't have anything to protect on my grounds. Our local butcher has been telling the lads that they will have no males left to shoot in the summer. He butchers over 350 a year and has seen a real change in sex shot towards male,s.

There is another thing happening with my friend experiencing this last week he shot a 40kg Fallow buck (neck shot)
to a busy Game Dealer who is only taking does, so he had to take it home and chop it up.

 

[Nickb]

Nope A. I signed my cert agreeing to the conditions on it also my FAC is worth more that £1.50 a kg, disappointed but not surprised you asked.

The key to all of it is just because you can, then should you? Answer NO
Tomorrow is another day.

Well done

 

[slider]

Before open season all we needed to do was look at the net and understand the conditions. Males have now been getting shot out of season for a few years and the change here is pretty obvious. What we need is a rethink all the tools in the box and an increase in Roe and Sika. Now i know many local lads that do not shoot females as a first call and will choose instead to shoot a pour buck. I include my self in that as i don't have anything to protect on my grounds. Our local butcher has been telling the lads that they will have no males left to shoot in the summer. He butchers over 350 a year and has seen a real change in sex shot towards male,s.

Well that's an attitude thing and it's doubtful that these guys would shoot females no matter what the seasons.
Somehow landowners need to be brought into the equation and kick these stalkers out if they are not shooting females.
I wonder if linking compulsory deer cull returns to cross compliance on farming grant schemes my be a useful lever.

 

[Taff]

Not at all Nickb. I believe lamping only serves one purpose and that's the contractors.

Isn,t the idea to first reduce deer numbers and then the contractors would not be required ?

 

[Hazlett]

I wonder if linking compulsory deer cull returns to cross compliance on farming grant schemes my be a useful lever.

I tried this approach with Defra (for England) and they wouldn't consider even a funded compulsory management plan. Worried about low take-up of schemes as it is. Also worried about public opinion.

I struggle to see a solution at the moment.

(Though I am keen to have doe seasons extended (in England) to end of April.)

 

[David Barker]

Well that's an attitude thing and it's doubtful that these guys would shoot females no matter what the seasons.
Somehow landowners need to be brought into the equation and kick these stalkers out if they are not shooting females.
I wonder if linking compulsory deer cull returns to cross compliance on farming grant schemes my be a useful lever.

Why would the farmers kick these guys off!. What do they get in return nothing.These guys including my self in this make sure they don't have vermin on there ground in return we shoot a few deer whats up with that. These guys did shoot does and plenty of them before they were allow3ed to shoot bucks instead. What the change in seasons has done is given them a choice and they have took it. Government must have known this would happen when they bent the knee for FLS etc. For roe what we need is to ban the shooting of males in winter completely no exception.Start on Females on the first of oct till march 31st march. Pay contractors and rec stalkers for female deer and make it easier to sell our own deer. Sell by type and promote the quality,s of wild venison Ban Farmed and imported deer completely until our problems ease. Will it happen no w3hy because the government officials and small quango,s are being worked from the back. Some even have there own deer farms.

 

[RCS Deer Management]

Not at all Nickb. I believe lamping only serves one purpose and that's the contractors.

What rubbish. If night shooting wasn’t allowed deer numbers would increase tenfold over what they currently are. Without a doubt the most effective time of day to shoot deer is when they are most active, ie. At night. Do you have any reasoning behind your statement or do you just hate contractors and lamps?

 

[Sol]

Ha ha, definitely don't need/want MORE govt involvement!

Dont get me wrong I agree in that sense, but same time independent stalkers arent going to do anything, we've been trying (and failing) we either need district registered cull lists too see what districts need more, or less culling.

Something like the central belt Is going to need more roe culled, than reds up in the tip-top north of Scotland, Its just somewhat basic ecology

If we could steal ideas from the US (and people actually register what they shoot) it would be highly ideal, but in all likely-hood no.