From experience I think you would find yourself in court, and you would be convicted , even under humane circumstance, the court could show you lenience, but you may need a good lawyer.
shooting from a stile yes or no
- Thread starter lister
- Start date
From experience I think you would find yourself in court, and you would be convicted , even under humane circumstance, the court could show you lenience, but you may need a good lawyer.
your boundary would be marked on a plan, it would show who owned the hedge fence line,
and some fishing rights held by clubs include 1 mtr of the riverbank either side
If I am committing trespass, I am a trespasser. If I am armed and committing trespass, I am committing armed trespass.
As far as I am aware, if I am on land and not trespassing, then I do not suddenly become guilty of armed trespass if I am handed a firearm.
If I am not trespassing, then I cannot be armed trespassing.
SL6.5
Well-Known Member
My own experiences do not support your assertion.
Bandit Country
Well-Known Member
If we simply revisit the OP it is quite obvious Lister is on a non-starter. He is standing "off my permission", therefore (unless for SL6.5's arguements sake, he is actually levitating or existing in some notional quasi-forth dimension) he is standing somewhere he doesn't have permission. While there are inevitably all sorts of possible exceptions - injured deer despatch, alien invasion etc - he will be committing an offence shooting at deer. His knowledge or otherwise of whether or not he has permission simply doesn't come in to it as he has obviously knows he doesn't have permission - then he shouldn't be shooting.
.... and I still haven't seen any response to the signposting request for case law or legislation to support BASC's alleged contention that it is OK to shoot from a PRoW...? If that could be posted then we could put another 'conversation' to bed.
This thread http://www.thestalkingdirectory.co.uk/showthread.php/81525-Lamping-off-the-roadside-legal might help.
PRoW being a public place, and there being laws that forbid shooting in a public place under specific circumstances we might conclude that shooting in a public place except under those specific circumstances is indeed lawful.
So are you saying that you shot a deer on land which you did not have permission to shoot, and that you just happened to be walking along a footpath with a loaded gun, and that the landowner decided not To press charges, as your excuse was that you just happened to be out looking for injured deer and came across one on there land.
Am I to believe the BASC have got this wrong or were they asked the wrong question??
It is legal to shoot across a footpath, it is legal to shoot from a footpath but you must have the permission of the owner of the land the footpath is on to shoot from it and either side of it if you are shooting across it. The footpath will have an owner whether it be County Council, District Council, private owner etc. Footpaths in E & W are not public domain they are there to travel freely over only. You must not impede or frighten any user of that footpath whilst shooting.
Having a loaded gun in your possession on land including a footpath where you do not have permission could be armed trespass!!
Regardless of what Scottish Law says English/Welsh Law is different.
It is legal to shoot across a footpath, it is legal to shoot from a footpath but you must have the permission of the owner of the land the footpath is on to shoot from it and either side of it if you are shooting across it. The footpath will have an owner whether it be County Council, District Council, private owner etc. Footpaths in E & W are not public domain they are there to travel freely over only. You must not impede or frighten any user of that footpath whilst shooting.
Having a loaded gun in your possession on land including a footpath where you do not have permission could be armed trespass!!
Regardless of what Scottish Law says English/Welsh Law is different.
SL6.5
Well-Known Member
Where did I say any of this?
AN DU RU FOX
Well-Known Member
be careful or you will be appologising for things you havnt said like me ,i do it often 
? your reply
The last paragraph has the answer
Shooting near roads and paths etc
It can be intimidating to come across shooting activities near a footpath or road, but it’s important to note that shooting is a legal activity and can legally take place in locations where the public have a right of access. There are laws governing shooting at such locations, and it is a shoot manager’s legal responsibility to ensure that the shoot and its employees comply with the law.
Anyone taking part in any shooting activity should recognise that users of public rights of way have the right to pass and repass without hindrance or being put in danger and be aware of anyone using them.
However it is important to understand that using a right of way to disrupt a legal shoot or intimidate or obstruct shooters who are acting legally is considered to be aggravated trespass, which is a a criminal offence. Note that if someone strays from a right of way onto private land without disrupting a legal activity then a civil trespass would apply.
Laws relevant to shooting near roads and ways come under the Highways Act 1980 (and its amendments). Note that the guidelines below are relevant only to England and Wales. The Highways Act does not apply in Scotland but Procurators Fiscal may use common law offences of ‘culpable and reckless conduct’ and ‘reckless endangerment’ in situations in which the 1980 Act would be contravened in England and Wales. In Northern Ireland, Section 61 of the Firearms (Northern Ireland) Order 2004 makes it an offence for a person to discharge any firearm on any public road, or within 18 metres of the centre of any public road, or in any church, churchyard or burial ground.
Rights of way
Rights of way fall into two categories and several sub-sets: Public rights of way and Private rights of way. Shooting may legally take place near all of them.
Public rights of way
There are several types of public right of way.
Highways, for the purposes of Section 161 (2) of the Highways Act 1980 (as amended), are a public right of way for the passage of vehicles and does not include footpaths, cycle tracks or bridleways.
Carriageways are a way over which the public have a right of way by foot, on horseback or with vehicles.
Bridleways are a way over which the public has a right of way on foot, on horseback or leading a horse. There is also a right to use a pedal cycle on a bridleway providing the cyclist gives way to pedestrians and riders.
Footpaths are a way over which the public have a right of way on foot only.
Private rights of way
A private right of way enables a landowner to access his own land via someone else’s, and is a way where public access is restricted.
(A ‘permissive path’ is a path or track that is not a public right of way. The public has no statutory right to use them and they are not covered by rights of way legislation. Their use may be restricted to daylight hours, ban dogs, or moved or closed at certain times.)
Shooting near highways (roads and carriageways)
In England & Wales using a firearm near a highway is not prohibited – but it is an offence without lawful authority or reasonable excuse to discharge any firearm within fifty feet of the centre of a highway/carriageway IF in consequence a user of the carriageway is injured, interrupted or endangered.
Shooting near footpaths and bridleways
A person with the shooting/sporting rights to land crossed by a footpath may shoot on or over that footpath.
In law the public and the shooter have equal rights to the footpath, and it is the responsibility of both parties to not obstruct the other.
While there is no specific legislation, shooting when a right of way is being used by a member of the public could be interpreted as a common law nuisance, wilful obstruction or a breach of Health and Safety at Work etc Act 1974. There may also be a liability in negligence if it is known that people are on, or likely to be on, the path. (To pursue any claim against a shooter a user of a footpath would need to prove that there was an injury, or that their passage was interrupted or interfered with e.g. they were forced to make a detour.)
However a shooter may only shoot over a footpath if they have permission to drop shot over the land on the other side. Firing a bullet or shot onto land without permission amounts to constructive trespass, a civil matter.
If someone shoots from a path which is crossing somebody else’s land without permission or without a reasonable excuse to do so it is taken to be armed trespass, which is a criminal offence.
Shooting near roads and paths etc
It can be intimidating to come across shooting activities near a footpath or road, but it’s important to note that shooting is a legal activity and can legally take place in locations where the public have a right of access. There are laws governing shooting at such locations, and it is a shoot manager’s legal responsibility to ensure that the shoot and its employees comply with the law.
Anyone taking part in any shooting activity should recognise that users of public rights of way have the right to pass and repass without hindrance or being put in danger and be aware of anyone using them.
However it is important to understand that using a right of way to disrupt a legal shoot or intimidate or obstruct shooters who are acting legally is considered to be aggravated trespass, which is a a criminal offence. Note that if someone strays from a right of way onto private land without disrupting a legal activity then a civil trespass would apply.
Laws relevant to shooting near roads and ways come under the Highways Act 1980 (and its amendments). Note that the guidelines below are relevant only to England and Wales. The Highways Act does not apply in Scotland but Procurators Fiscal may use common law offences of ‘culpable and reckless conduct’ and ‘reckless endangerment’ in situations in which the 1980 Act would be contravened in England and Wales. In Northern Ireland, Section 61 of the Firearms (Northern Ireland) Order 2004 makes it an offence for a person to discharge any firearm on any public road, or within 18 metres of the centre of any public road, or in any church, churchyard or burial ground.
Rights of way
Rights of way fall into two categories and several sub-sets: Public rights of way and Private rights of way. Shooting may legally take place near all of them.
Public rights of way
There are several types of public right of way.
Highways, for the purposes of Section 161 (2) of the Highways Act 1980 (as amended), are a public right of way for the passage of vehicles and does not include footpaths, cycle tracks or bridleways.
Carriageways are a way over which the public have a right of way by foot, on horseback or with vehicles.
Bridleways are a way over which the public has a right of way on foot, on horseback or leading a horse. There is also a right to use a pedal cycle on a bridleway providing the cyclist gives way to pedestrians and riders.
Footpaths are a way over which the public have a right of way on foot only.
Private rights of way
A private right of way enables a landowner to access his own land via someone else’s, and is a way where public access is restricted.
(A ‘permissive path’ is a path or track that is not a public right of way. The public has no statutory right to use them and they are not covered by rights of way legislation. Their use may be restricted to daylight hours, ban dogs, or moved or closed at certain times.)
Shooting near highways (roads and carriageways)
In England & Wales using a firearm near a highway is not prohibited – but it is an offence without lawful authority or reasonable excuse to discharge any firearm within fifty feet of the centre of a highway/carriageway IF in consequence a user of the carriageway is injured, interrupted or endangered.
Shooting near footpaths and bridleways
A person with the shooting/sporting rights to land crossed by a footpath may shoot on or over that footpath.
In law the public and the shooter have equal rights to the footpath, and it is the responsibility of both parties to not obstruct the other.
While there is no specific legislation, shooting when a right of way is being used by a member of the public could be interpreted as a common law nuisance, wilful obstruction or a breach of Health and Safety at Work etc Act 1974. There may also be a liability in negligence if it is known that people are on, or likely to be on, the path. (To pursue any claim against a shooter a user of a footpath would need to prove that there was an injury, or that their passage was interrupted or interfered with e.g. they were forced to make a detour.)
However a shooter may only shoot over a footpath if they have permission to drop shot over the land on the other side. Firing a bullet or shot onto land without permission amounts to constructive trespass, a civil matter.
If someone shoots from a path which is crossing somebody else’s land without permission or without a reasonable excuse to do so it is taken to be armed trespass, which is a criminal offence.
He gave us his "reasonable excuse" in the second line.
The deer man
Well-Known Member
No you cannot because a bullet/shot fired from a firearm must be contained within your property/area where you have the right/permission to shoot. In this instance it is leaving your property and crossing another property (where they own the airspace) to get to your property on the other side. I discussed this point of fact two weeks ago with my Firearms Licencing and the person in question is highly knowledgeable about the law (believe it or not some FLO's know their subject).
As for the original post, it beggars belief! All I will say, in layman's terms, is the only person who may stop on a public footpath is the landowner of that footpath and anyone he has given permission to be there. That means you can not stop on a public footpath to have a dance, picnic, speakers corner or to discharge a firearm without the permission of the landowner who owns the land the footpath crosses. A footpath is for the sole use of the general public getting from A to B on foot and that is all.
Refer to 'Rights or Way Access (England and Wales)' - If you don't understand it consult a specialist solicitor or come and shoot off our land whilst standing on a footpath and I will guarantee you will be arrested and lose your firearms!
bewsher500
Well-Known Member
be the last place I went for legal advice pertaining to Firearms!
That said the obvious answer to the OP's question comes in the form of another question.
why not just ask the Landowner on whose property the PROW falls if he has a problem with you shooting from their land using the fence as cover?
any disturbance you cause to ANYONE on a PROW will cause you major anal irritation anyway, whether you are standing on your land or not
The deer man
Well-Known Member
I wasn't seeking legal advice just discussing a point of law with someone who's knowledge on this particular subject is very good.
As for anal irritation I quite agree, it's beyond me why anyone would want to tempt fate in such a way!
2130martin
Well-Known Member
How about shooting over a river/stream running through your permission,i have always assumed it is technically illegal..............???
SL6.5
Well-Known Member
At what?
Why would it be illegal, you may have sold the fishing rights but you may own the sporting rights a completely different thing, but I have always wondered if I was in a plane and shot a deer from several thousand feet high and it was on my own ground, would I be breaking the law as it's a moving vehicle. just my stupid question to add to the mix.
Similar threads
