Shooting from main road in Scotland.

[Patterdale Terrier]

The legal position is quite clear and allows shooting from the highway in both England and Scotland, however interpretation of the law by the police and the shooter will always be hazy. In England & Wales it is an offence without lawful authority or reasonable excuse to discharge a firearm within 50 feet of the centre of a highway which consists of or comprises a carriageway, 'AND' in consequence a user of the carriageway is injured, interrupted or endangered. Section 161(2) of The Highways Act 1980 as amended. It is important to remember that the discharge of a firearm is not prohibited in itself. It 'MUST' also be proved that there was an injury, or that someone's passage was interrupted or interfered with, e.g. they have been forced to take a detour. Remember a 'highway' is restricted to a public right of way for the passage of vehicles and does not include footpaths, cycle tracks or bridleways. Therefore the 50 feet rule described above does not apply to rights of ways that cross private lands e.g. footpaths. In Scotland where The Highways Act no longer applies the legal position is covered by Common Law but follows a similar course as that in England in that the shooting upon the highway is allowed but an offence occurs where a highway user is disturbed or inconvenienced.

 

[smokey]

I got called out by the police on Monday morning to dispatch a red hind that had been hit on the road. I attended and dispatched the deer.

The Highways Act 1980 Section 161 in England and Wales, makes it an offence to discharge, without lawful authority or excuse, any firearm within 50 feet of the centre of the highway (which consists of or comprises a carriageway) if in consequence of which a user of the highway is injured, interrupted or endangered. This does not apply to footpaths and bridleways.

In Scotland, the Highways Act does not apply but the offence of “reckless endangerment” exists under common law.

I have night shooting permission on the adjacent land however the only way to do it is from the main road. I phoned and told the sergeant that i was planning to do this and he told me I couldn't shoot from the carriageway as I didn't have the landowners permission, Transport Scotland.

Basc advice seems to contradict the information from police scotland.

Any legal experts to offer definitive advice would be greatly appreciated.

Regards

i do not know the law in this instance but the advice i give to new shooters is "if in doubt do not do it" & assume what ever you do assume some one has got a camera on you

 

[TITANIUM]

I got called out by the police on Monday morning to dispatch a red hind that had been hit on the road. I attended and dispatched the deer.

The Highways Act 1980 Section 161 in England and Wales, makes it an offence to discharge, without lawful authority or excuse, any firearm within 50 feet of the centre of the highway (which consists of or comprises a carriageway) if in consequence of which a user of the highway is injured, interrupted or endangered. This does not apply to footpaths and bridleways.

In Scotland, the Highways Act does not apply but the offence of “reckless endangerment” exists under common law.

I have night shooting permission on the adjacent land however the only way to do it is from the main road. I phoned and told the sergeant that i was planning to do this and he told me I couldn't shoot from the carriageway as I didn't have the landowners permission, Transport Scotland.

Basc advice seems to contradict the information from police scotland.

Any legal experts to offer definitive advice would be greatly appreciated.

Regards

Best advice I could give is to contact David McKie, Legal Representative for the SGA.
There are some fair answers on here, but there are some that if you adhered to would land you in difficulties pretty quickly.
The Sergeant does not appear to have been particularly helpful. Given that you appear to be based in Argyll the Sergeant could well have been based at a PSoS Call Centre where knowledge on such matters will be very limited. It shouldn't be, but trust me, it is!!
If you did speak to a 'local' Sergeant, then they should have done a whole lot better than leaving you in the current quandary.
If it means joining the SGA then do so. They are Scotland based and a very dedicated bunch of people who will keep you on the correct (and legal) path.
Best wishes for 2024.

 

[25 Sharps]

Couldn't agree more on what you say.

The quote I put on about the highways act is from BASC best practice on night shooting and it if for that reason I asked here if there was any legal experts to offer definitive advice.

Legal experts usually charge for definitive advice….

 

[User00040]

This is very much 'If a tree falls in a forest, but no one hears it, does it make a noise?'

 

[Mungo]

This is very much 'If a tree falls in a forest, but no one hears it, does it make a noise?'

I mean, shooting deer over the march dyke is only illegal if someone sees it, right? Right?

 

[stonepark]

It will come down to ownership of the land under the highway.

You are allowed to shoot with a firearm on land you have permission to shoot on, full stop, as stated in your firearms licence.

If you are shooting from land you don't have permission to shoot on, you are breaking your licence conditions/poaching/commiting armed trespass/endangering the public etc.

If your land owner owns land abutting both sides or one side of the road but not the land under the highway, you are in trouble most assuredly as you are firing from land owned by someone who hasn't granted consent.

If your landowner where you have permission to shoot, owns the land both sides AND under the highway, you are technically fine but probably still not advisable but doesn't seem to stop the lads generally carrying out fox control.

However in Argyll, unless your landowner is the Duke of Argyll, it is exceptionally unlikely that the land owner owns the land under the road.

 

[countrryboy]

I take it access is poor on the land itself.

They're is plenty of decent advice already.
And as with most probably think the Sargent will be legally wrong in wot he has advised, but it will likely be the sensible option.

I would say the ownership of road will make the issue potentially more complicated.
I know with motor ways they definitely buy all the land right up to the fences well past the verges.

The big problem may not be whether it is strictly speaking legal but whether it is wise.
In my area most lads on the foxes will shoot the majority off public roads but ur talking about very quiet rural roads.

How busy is the road late at night?
Are u likely to interrupt or alarm many users by shooting off it?
Could u spy deer/foxes of the road but get out motor with gun and climb onto ur ground for the shot? (Granted might not br easy if ur climbing fences, even if u put some stylea in or trimmed wee holes in the hedge at specific likely firing positions)

1 problem we will all face in the future is, as the law is worded 50ft And if it causes injury, interruption or endangered. ( I actually thought alarmed, was in there too)
But while many on here might not mind a slight interruption as someone takes a shot of a rural road many city types/antis would not be happy and might 'claim' to have been either interrupted, endangered or alarmed even when claims are totally unjustified.
So as more and more people object to shooting u will get more and more folk who feel alarmed or endangered.
U might get off with it if u have a complaint but will be a right pita having to go through it and potentially having guns taking of u in the short term

 

[willyroe]

Such a mixed bag of responses. Very interesting read and a good question.

Pretty sure you can shoot deer from a road / or a vehicle on a road, on to land (which you have permission to shoot) in Scotland.

I don’t think the ownership of the road / ownership of land comments are quite right so far. In Scotland local authorities adopt the highway. Going into that much detail depends on when the land was last conveyed and when the road was adopted or on many cases the other way round.