Magnificent 7
Well-Known Member
Any of you guys had a donat reloadong for game shooting and how did you get on half tempted to have a craic at it
Shotgun reloading
- Thread starter Magnificent 7
- Start date
Yes.
Tools expensive, time consuming, good hand feel for 'pressure/compression' is required.
Much more finicky compared to metallic bottleneck CF cases.
Major hurdles:
1-Most European/British shells (called hulls) are crap, plastic too soft, bad memory and does not re-crimp very well. Americans call it Eurotrash (term also used to describe most who are willing to pay a few £k for a peg).
2- Primers. The US standard 209 primer that is sold over the counter is dimensionally different compared to the UK/EU standard. You can reform the brass quite easily to take a 209 primer but still a hassle.
3- Wad columns and wad seating pressure. Very important to get this right, otherwise shell will end up either too long or performance will be terrible.
4- Crimp. A very important final touch which has to be correct for proper function in a semi auto. Also affects pattern.
Personally would use either a very cheap pump or semi to get a feel for technique ( I used a long recoil 'pogo stick'). Don't exceed max loads (both for shot weight and powder). Use the right wads!
For the amount of kit required to produce and reproduce ammo either on par or close to commercial grade you are looking at £100 give or take (I started with an old Lee Loader 12G, no longer made). They make presses too but these are huge contraptions.
Technique and consistency is everything. A semi is least forgiving on ammo so ideally pump or maybe o/u or sbs if it's a cheap one.
If you own a nice Browning or Miroku just buy factory shells. If you own a Boss or Purdy ... what are you even doing thinking about this?
Next thing you'll want to know is how to iron your own clothes. Disgraceful!
Tools expensive, time consuming, good hand feel for 'pressure/compression' is required.
Much more finicky compared to metallic bottleneck CF cases.
Major hurdles:
1-Most European/British shells (called hulls) are crap, plastic too soft, bad memory and does not re-crimp very well. Americans call it Eurotrash (term also used to describe most who are willing to pay a few £k for a peg).
2- Primers. The US standard 209 primer that is sold over the counter is dimensionally different compared to the UK/EU standard. You can reform the brass quite easily to take a 209 primer but still a hassle.
3- Wad columns and wad seating pressure. Very important to get this right, otherwise shell will end up either too long or performance will be terrible.
4- Crimp. A very important final touch which has to be correct for proper function in a semi auto. Also affects pattern.
Personally would use either a very cheap pump or semi to get a feel for technique ( I used a long recoil 'pogo stick'). Don't exceed max loads (both for shot weight and powder). Use the right wads!
For the amount of kit required to produce and reproduce ammo either on par or close to commercial grade you are looking at £100 give or take (I started with an old Lee Loader 12G, no longer made). They make presses too but these are huge contraptions.
Technique and consistency is everything. A semi is least forgiving on ammo so ideally pump or maybe o/u or sbs if it's a cheap one.
If you own a nice Browning or Miroku just buy factory shells. If you own a Boss or Purdy ... what are you even doing thinking about this?
Next thing you'll want to know is how to iron your own clothes. Disgraceful!
Magnificent 7
Well-Known Member
thanks for the thorough response ill stick to the shop boughts I think as for ironing clothes we've a brand new iron its been under the sink since the the wife landed 15 years ago im sure she has noticed it but I've yet to see her use it I once asked and was told the tumble dryer does same job very strange creatures these women
Many different types of 'crimp'.
The most popular type for shot-shells will be the star (usually 5 points) and roll turn over.
In the very old days of brass shells they were all wax sealed or similar.
I have managed to 'get it right' on occasion and produce what looks to be a factory grade shell but usually only every 4 or less out of 12, the others will function but sometimes there are rejects, would still work fine in a break or maybe even pump but jam on a semi.
Another thing is that some semi's leave a very prominent extractor mark on the brass case head, usually to the extent of bending the rim slightly which will be an immediate bin as it will never chamber quite as smoothly as a fresh case. On some long recoil or gas operated guns you can 'tune' the cycling which will reduce this but also at the cost of reliability.
As in my first post, factory will always be more reliable. You will only 'save' money by reloading exotic shot loads (zinc, bismuth, tungsten etc), sizes other than 12G or very heavy shells (think 3.5" in shot size 1 or similar).
Wad choice is also crucial. No one is going to develop the perfect shell and wad combo and then sell it to reloaders to make their own shells. Most of the big name commercial brands have proprietary shells and wads which were developed to work well together and under manufacturers specs of primer, powder, wad, shot and crimp (think of this as a cross cut column).
It is a very interesting subject to explore, in theory the 12G is the ultimate 'do it all' from the smallest to largest game on earth (maybe several copper slugs
) but the practicality of this is limited.If I had the time and money I would get a nice and light, walnut stocked O/U damascus barrelled 20 bore built for me with a tight choke, and develop a tight patterning load on number 8 shot for walked up grouse and woodcock. But the amount of money spent on a true custom shotgun will buy you 10 nice rifles!
Considered it for a (very short) while. I thought if you get through a lot of cartridges, financially it could make sense. But frankly, I don't see how it could.
But then again, lots of people will reload for their rifles where they shoot quantities that doesn't make it economical. But with that, you can get advantages in that reloads can be the thing your rifle loves and accuracy is a factor.
But I guess, with all reloading, part of it's appeal is in the actual reloading. A hobby really where you can spend time in peace, concentrate and there's an end result. So with that in mind, if anyone wanted to load their own cartridges, then who am I to stop them? It's entirely possible I might have a chuckle at their expense though.
But then again, lots of people will reload for their rifles where they shoot quantities that doesn't make it economical. But with that, you can get advantages in that reloads can be the thing your rifle loves and accuracy is a factor.
But I guess, with all reloading, part of it's appeal is in the actual reloading. A hobby really where you can spend time in peace, concentrate and there's an end result. So with that in mind, if anyone wanted to load their own cartridges, then who am I to stop them? It's entirely possible I might have a chuckle at their expense though.
The learning is what drew me in, same with CF reloading.
By no means an 'expert' in either and will never claim to be, but once you produce a safely loaded round, you have learned.
Actually started loading shotgun then rifle. The latter is not quite as hard as some make it out to be, but the former is a lot harder than it seems at a glance.
Czhowa
Well-Known Member
I've been reloading shotgun cartridges for years now. I got hooked when I realised that the options for subsonics was limited.
I've tried all sorts of techniques and in the end I gave up with crimps.
I've an mec jr press and I use it to resize, deprime and prime, then powder, wad (has a scale you can adjust to experiment with wad pressure) and finally to drop the shot.
Then I finish off with a RTO, the best tool I've found is made by feskent and gives a perfect roll. I put the tool in a pillar drill at low speed.
I've tried all sorts of techniques and in the end I gave up with crimps.
I've an mec jr press and I use it to resize, deprime and prime, then powder, wad (has a scale you can adjust to experiment with wad pressure) and finally to drop the shot.
Then I finish off with a RTO, the best tool I've found is made by feskent and gives a perfect roll. I put the tool in a pillar drill at low speed.
I assume this is with a moderator fitted to your SG?
Subsonic sans moderator would be appealing.
Czhowa
Well-Known Member
I've got some with mods and some without and I just use subs through them all now.
I engaged my brain at one stage regarding velocities and how much lead to give targets and the result was that I lost my mojo and couldn't hit a f****** thing.
I only use HV loads for steel goose cartridges now.
I engaged my brain at one stage regarding velocities and how much lead to give targets and the result was that I lost my mojo and couldn't hit a f****** thing.
I only use HV loads for steel goose cartridges now.
enfieldspares
Well-Known Member
This above. It's really IMHO only worth the hassle if you are loading something no longer catalogued by the cartridge makers such as blackpowder loads or the old English three inch load.
Caberslash said "In the very old days of brass shells they were all wax sealed or similar" although true there are many of us that still load brass cases. Mainly for wildfowling in large bore Damascus barrels.
As for game in twelve bore it's not worth the trouble in my opinion.
I have a hornady Pacific press for 12 bore which I havn't used for 5 years.
A mec 10 bore press, rarely used.
It's great to pick a bird you have shot with a home load but apart from my eights which I have to load myself it's a lot of kit ,components and time.
Ray
As for game in twelve bore it's not worth the trouble in my opinion.
I have a hornady Pacific press for 12 bore which I havn't used for 5 years.
A mec 10 bore press, rarely used.
It's great to pick a bird you have shot with a home load but apart from my eights which I have to load myself it's a lot of kit ,components and time.
Ray
thegreg
Well-Known Member
It all depends what you hope to get out of venturing into reloading shotgun cartridges. If it’s to save money, yes it’s possible but economies of scale play a part and offsetting the initial investment of the equipment will take a while, depending what the equipment cost and how much you load of course.
I load 12g cartridges for game shooting. My main reason is I like being able to customise loads that wouldn’t be readily available to buy off the shelf and would be expensive if they were. For example I’ve just done a box of 42g no.4’s for duck shooting. I also load 8g and .410.
In honesty I don’t actually “reload” anything, I buy new primed hulls, load them once, use them and chuck them away like I would with any spent cartridge. In my mind reusing old hulls to save a couple of pence is a complete waste of time.
The equipment doesn’t have to cost a fortune. My press is an old Redding model which I paid £30 for and is far superior in quality to any of the modern offerings from MEC. I paid more for the GAEP crimp finisher. That’s all I have apart from all the consumables.
If its something you fancy give it a go, it'll be a learning experience if
nothing else.
Cheers
Greg
I load 12g cartridges for game shooting. My main reason is I like being able to customise loads that wouldn’t be readily available to buy off the shelf and would be expensive if they were. For example I’ve just done a box of 42g no.4’s for duck shooting. I also load 8g and .410.
In honesty I don’t actually “reload” anything, I buy new primed hulls, load them once, use them and chuck them away like I would with any spent cartridge. In my mind reusing old hulls to save a couple of pence is a complete waste of time.
The equipment doesn’t have to cost a fortune. My press is an old Redding model which I paid £30 for and is far superior in quality to any of the modern offerings from MEC. I paid more for the GAEP crimp finisher. That’s all I have apart from all the consumables.
If its something you fancy give it a go, it'll be a learning experience if
nothing else.
Cheers
Greg
My lasting memory from clay pigeon shooting is waiting for the reloader to get his cartridges to fire. Reloaders of shotgun cartridges were very unpopular as they broke the detail's rhythm.
Regards
JCS
I no longer reload for shotgun the reason being I no longer shoot geese. I found that for game loads there were no savings over factory loads but 3" magnum shells could be made for a fraction of the cost of factory ones. I used a Lee load all which worked well but finished the case with a roll turnover tool.
roughshooter1
Well-Known Member
I still reload all my shotgun loads. It is very cost effective for subsonic and non toxic loads. I also reload all my clay cartridges and yesterday they are still cheaper if you buy the components at the right price. I buy bulk powder and recently bought 100kg of home made shot at £2 per KG. I haven’t worked out the cost of a clay load but it is probably still half price and excellent quality
8x57
Distinguished Member
I take it that's just on informal clay bale shoots and that you don't shoot on shooting grounds?
I reloaded all my own shotgun cartridges very many years ago and they worked perfectly well, at that time I was getting through a few thousand a year. However, I found that as time passed and I was using less and less cartridges it became uneconomic both from a time and cost point of view. I think for normal use, buying factory is best.
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