Side by Sides - Worth Buying?

[timbrayford]

Absolutely worth it, a good quality side by side sidelock with a straight hand stock is an absolute joy to use.
And why would it be an unsafe option, just because lead may or may not be banned doesn’t stop a gun from working, it’s still the same gun regardless of what you put through it, as long as it’s no tighter than 1/2 choke, which most aren’t, then carry on as before and savour every shot.

You only need to worry about chokes if you are gullible enough to use ballistically inferior steel shot.

 

[stubear]

I love mine - got an AYA 711 earlier in the year and it’s a superb gun.

I had an ugartechea before that which unfortunately ended up broken and wasn’t worth the cost to repair so that’s getting deactivated and will be going on the wall!

Can’t beat a SxS - I know OUs are great and all but the romance and history of a proper SxS makes them so worthwhile.

 

[Len the dog]

You only need to worry about chokes if you are gullible enough to use ballistically inferior steel shot.

Whether that is forced upon us or not remains to be seen. A couple of years ago I helped a non-shooting friend dispose of his late father’s shotguns, the RFD’s that I discussed them with all said the same thing, buyers only want new guns with the superior steel proof, even though most of them didn’t understand what it meant. They are unlikely to ever fire superior steel but the fleur-de-lys had become the new must have.

 

[Foxyboy43]

Just noticed an AYA No. 2 (beautiful) shotgun is now north of £13,000 new, incl. vat.
T’internet is full of said guns going for £850-£1200 second hand!
It can’t all be steel shot/fashion/fad so on earth what is going on??

 

[sauer]

t can’t all be steel shot/fashion/fad so on earth what is going on??

Nothing new … side by sides been worthless virtually for few years

Bargains to be had if you want

Paul

 

[steve w]

lot of gun shops don't even sell them now ,i never shoot anything else love my 16 bores

 

[Heym SR20]

I am really pleased that people think that 2 1/2” chambered shotguns are worthless, and that there are no options for steel shot cartridges designed for old vintage guns and keep peddling this myth.

Heavens know how I have managed to buy 12, 16 and 20 2 1/2” steel shot cartridges. Having used them for a few seasons now I can tell you that they are utterly shite on 60 yard plus birds, so much so I never shoot birds at that range. And on birds that are well within range I only hit about 50% of what I shoot at - again very dissatisfying. I am also really disappointed that birds don’t hit the ground ready plucked and oven ready - last time I went on a big formal shoot and used lead shot, birds presented to the guns were all oven ready.

Gunsmiths also peddle this myth. There is a roaring trade in fine old British guns going across the Atlantic to our American cousins. Grandpa’s nice pair of Dickson Round Actions - utterly worthless sir, here is nice pair of Berretta Silver Pigeons sir. Yes of course we will dispose of grandpa’s guns - said in the same manner as the vet when your old companion is on its way out. Six months later those are listed on an American emporium’s website for US $20,000.

 

[Bowland blades]

The light fast sxs shotgun of the past has gone out of favour , that's for sure . obvious reasons thin walled barrels that wont live with steel shot and the tough plastic wads . I still like them still own some but when lead goes we have just bismuth .
Bismuth is ok for the small bores like 410 shooting 14 gram loads is not very extravagant
My main game gun is a sxs multi choked , steel proofed , ejector with some OK wood with 3 1/2" chambers
The rest are pumps and Autos that handle steel

 

[Heym SR20]

Guns, optics and cars, probably some of the worst possible things to invest in right now. But a good time to buy one for the Sunday drive or invite day shooting.

What we will see is all our old and vintage cars that can’t go anywhere as LEZbianism expands out with the cities, and old rifles and shotguns fall out of fashion due to lead bans - is they all end up being exported by a few clever folk to sit in massive collections in Texas or similar.

Most LEZs - certainly Edinburgh and other Scottish cities - allow historical vehicles freedom of access.

Fundamentally if your car was first registered more than 30 years ago and it has not been heavily modified it’s classed as an historic vehicle and thus exempt from the restrictions.

So if my kept my Golf Mk2 on a a J registration she would be exempt (I will just take a moment to remember her). So to will all Series Landrover’s, the stage 1 V8s and early 90’s and 110’s. Defenders are too young.

If you have a 1960’s or 1970’s muscle car with a 6 litre V8 - fill your boots doing doughnuts in the middle of Edinburgh - you won’t infringe any of the LEZ restrictions.

We are now seeing a lot more Series 3 landrovers being parked up and used in the middle of Edinburgh. I know of at least two that have been retrieved from use as the weekend farm hack to every day city use.

I did change my perfectly good Audi A4 Allroad which had done 170,000 miles for a Vw Touareg Escape. The latter has adblue Euro 6 so is compliant. It has very large exhaust pipes that can each house a couple of MSPs. It gives me great pleasure to drive it through the middle of town with a large trailer on the back - just because I can.

 

[NullMac]

If you need a fence post for light use

 

[Button]

The price of good modern side by sides keeps on falling. There's plenty of AYA No.2's available for around £1200, with No.1's being £1,000 more. Arrieta and Garbi sidelocks are similar. These are typically choked 1/4 and 1/2 or less, so perfectly usable even if lead is banned. This must be the ideal time to buy one of these guns, or is a new over and under a safer option going forward?

PM sent

 

[tonyshooter]

Definitely buy one, but don't expect to sell it at a profit !

My pal has an Arthur Turner 12 GA SLE with 2 1/2" chambers ( in near mint condition ) that was valued by a Sheffield gunshop at £4.5 k some 5 years ago.

He recently took it in to get it re valued and the same gunshop and they knocked a a zero of the previous valuation ie currently £450 !

 

[timbrayford]

Whether that is forced upon us or not remains to be seen. A couple of years ago I helped a non-shooting friend dispose of his late father’s shotguns, the RFD’s that I discussed them with all said the same thing, buyers only want new guns with the superior steel proof, even though most of them didn’t understand what it meant. They are unlikely to ever fire superior steel but the fleur-de-lys had become the new must have.

To be frank apart from clay pigeon shooting I'd prefer to use bismuth rather than steel

 

[Heym SR20]

Funny old world - my local gun shop has several “2nd division” English side-by-sides which can be bought for a fraction of what would have been happily paid 25 years ago - when I would have sold a kidney to get one. Quality Spanish guns are the same - yet the new ones are astronomical but as I understand it anything below half choke will handle steel without issue. The .243 rifle and copper saga has pretty much been and gone and again there was a significant negative impact on their sales - both new and second hand.
Sooo are we just victims of the rumour machine - if so where do these rumours begin?

Yup - just victims of rumours

They are pieces of gunmaking art that just give pleasure every time you use them.

 

[HonestJohn]

Definitely buy one, but don't expect to sell it at a profit !

My pal has an Arthur Turner 12 GA SLE with 2 1/2" chambers ( in near mint condition ) that was valued by a Sheffield gunshop at £4.5 k some 5 years ago.

He recently took it in to get it re valued and the same gunshop and they knocked a a zero of the previous valuation ie currently £450 !

Of course they did, they probably were going to hope he agree a trade in deal with a new O/U and the. Then they could sell his old SLE to the yanks for $12,500

 

[HistoricBore]

I've just collected today my 1976 Miroku side-by-side 12 bore. It locks up like a vault, takes 2 3/4" cartridges and when the time comes I can open up the full choke barrel to 1/2 for steel. All for £350 ...

HB

... and I can now report that it shoots very well, ejects perfectly and is fun to use. The stock is just a bit short at 14.0" though.

HB

 

[Dunwaters]

The light fast sxs shotgun of the past has gone out of favour , that's for sure . obvious reasons thin walled barrels that wont live with steel shot and the tough plastic wads . I still like them still own some but when lead goes we have just bismuth .
Bismuth is ok for the small bores like 410 shooting 14 gram loads is not very extravagant
My main game gun is a sxs multi choked , steel proofed , ejector with some OK wood with 3 1/2" chambers
The rest are pumps and Autos that handle steel

The big reason older light fast SBS are out of fashion is not so much steel shot or even the double triggers and straight grips.
They are specialist tools designed to do one thing and one thing only, shoot game at medium ranges.
They don’t transition particularly well to any of the clay disciplines, or to today’s high bird high volume shoots.
As shooting live quarry declines and evolves , there is simply no role for the specialised game harvesting tools of yesterday in Europe today.

 

[Heym SR20]

The big reason older light fast SBS are out of fashion is not so much steel shot or even the double triggers and straight grips.
They are specialist tools designed to do one thing and one thing only, shoot game at medium ranges.
They don’t transition particularly well to any of the clay disciplines, or to today’s high bird high volume shoots.
As shooting live quarry declines and evolves , there is simply no role for the specialised game harvesting tools of yesterday in Europe today.

However I think the lighter weight side by sides with a little 21gram load are the ideal tool for the increasingly popular simulated game clay pigeon shooting where you have clays coming from all directions and when not expecting them.

A light fast handling gun is a delight to use on such.

Also very good on games such as rally clays

 

[Apthorpe]

They don’t transition particularly well to any of the clay disciplines, or to today’s high bird high volume shoots.
As shooting live quarry declines and evolves , there is simply no role for the specialised game harvesting tools of yesterday in Europe today.

Some inconsistency, shurely?

 

[Bowland blades]

The big reason older light fast SBS are out of fashion is not so much steel shot or even the double triggers and straight grips.
They are specialist tools designed to do one thing and one thing only, shoot game at medium ranges.
They don’t transition particularly well to any of the clay disciplines, or to today’s high bird high volume shoots.
As shooting live quarry declines and evolves , there is simply no role for the specialised game harvesting tools of yesterday in Europe today.

strange because small bores like 410, 28, 20 bore are pretty popular and with adult shooters Double triggers ? Yeah what was the norm has faded a great deal , better machinery makes a single trigger much less expensive ( i only have one double trigger in my entire collection now ) . Tungsten based ammo makes a 28 and 20 bore a goose gun , 410 moderated have been a big hit with pest control / keepers . Indeed the Turkish made 410, 28 double must be up there in quantity of gunshop top sales ?
High volume , high bird pheasant shoots ? 12 bore stack barrel dominated obviously ! The majority of UK shooters do much more than that though