Available: SNH Flanders Moss NNR - Deer Management Permission

[david1]

Its far to wet for ponies, you'll get them bogged.......

Better get looking for a pony John.

 

[stu847]

Best crack on then, no need to seek opinion from those who've gone before - 'fill yer boots'!

These is always a place for other peoples opinions, I'm big enough to admit when help is needed. However fresh eyes on a situation can sometimes lead to new ideas and ways of doing things not seen before.

 

[Freeforester]

Full marks for enthusiasm, and your rationale that others may have missed something may indeed be correct, given that many have tried, but few indeed have stuck at it and succeeded (if it was an easy one, it wouldn't be being offered, perhaps?), but only may...

 

[Tom D]

It’s not going to be easy, the question will be where are atv’s allowed and where aren’t they? That will hopefully become clear when we meet SNH. If it’s severely restricted then dragging large deer over extremely soft wet ground while being eaten alive by midgies won’t be a lot of fun, in fact in some places it will be impossible. I have been on lowland raised bog sites for FCS and they are tough places to get around, one minute ankle deep, one more step and your over your knee or worse. In fact the last contractor could be still in there! On the other hand it might be an interesting little job depending on how accommodating SNH are going to be..

 

[stu847]

It does seem like it would be very interesting. Sounds a lot like being out on the marsh, only you can't rely on the dog to bring the quarry back. Not for the work shy clearly.

 

[Freeforester]

Nor for anyone making their full time, unpaid living from the job.

 

[gsorense]

which is one of the reasons not all ground is suitable for rec stalkers - and the right contractor will pitch their bid at the right level.

There is no money changing hands in this bid, excepting the £1000 to cover some expenses. Surely it's not worthwhile for a professional just for the carcass value given all the extraction issues, so will mainly be recreational stalkers bidding?

 

[slider]

There is no money changing hands in this bid, excepting the £1000 to cover some expenses. Surely it's not worthwhile for a professional just for the carcass value given all the extraction issues, so will mainly be recreational stalkers bidding?

This is an opportunity to bid, which is scored against many more criteria than just £'s. SNH want the cull done and I strongly suspect that someone bidding a fee and having the ability to meet cull targets will have more chance than a rec stalker willing to pay but not being able to demonstrate ability to meet the target.

 

[Freeforester]

IMV in situations like these, much depends on how much pressure and by what means it was applied in the last 'go' at them, something all too often overlooked and very much underestimated by hopeful entrants, many of whom do not understand deer behaviour and their response to such efforts, and/or go at matters in a 'sub-optimal' way; light or no light, if it was going to be easy, it would have already been managed successfully; I leave it to others to determine whether it is a (or even "the") garden of Eden project for them, or something rather more akin to the usual £%#{up that someone else has tried and not delivered to the target set by the Masters, but the new hopeful is expected to cure, more often than not against an unrealistic timescale, also set because those setting the targets are not familiar with the niceties involved in understanding deer.

But be sure, someone will have a go. For me, it smacks of yet another fool's errand; I nevertheless look forward to hearing all about it in due course, and wish the successful contractor all the best.

 

[stu847]

Just looking on PCS and they state the previous cull figure average 1 deer per year!!
That must be some of the toughest stalking around??
Would love to be part of the team that take on the mammoth task!!

 

[Tom D]

Went to the meeting today, the previous cull was indeed 1! Hence the need for a fresh approach. The problem is there aren’t any deer, well not on the ground in question anyway. All the scrub and woodland has been cleared from the area so that although deer cross the area at night there are no deer holding areas. Local knowledge tells me that the deer are fully nocturnal, and won’t cross the area until well after dark and will be back off the farmland and back across well before dawn. This is why the previous guy only got 1!

Night licence is is out of the question apparently.. it’s a head scratcher.

 

[stu847]

That is a bit of a head scratcher. Did there seem to be any way of getting the other land owners on side, would of thought they want the deer controlled too.
Any reason for the no on the night licence?
makes more sense why number so low now.

 

[Tom D]

No night license because the legislature specifically says only for crop or forest protection, the moss is neither. And since SNH issue the licences they can’t be seen to be favouring themselves so they do it exactly by the book..
People on neighbouring land are already controlling the deer, the farms are hammering them under night licences.

 

[slider]

So... if there are no resident deer and the neighbours are doing their bit the question has to be, what exactly do SNH want the winning bidder to achieve?

The tender text clearly state they want a "focused cull on an expanding population" but it appears there is no resident population and there in unlikely to be one as there is no cover...

 

[Tom D]

Perhaps I have misled you, there is cover on the moss, and there are lots of deer, they just aren't on the land in question. SNH only own about 90 out of 800Ha of the overall site. The rest is private or FCS and has other stalkers on it. SNH's problem is that they are telling the other land owners to control their deer and yet aren't controlling their own. They were open and honest about this. I think they are stuck between a rock and a hard place, i liked the site and i liked the SNH staff, I will still put a bid in as I think it will still be good for us, plus I like a challenge. They will be hot on ground damage though, what ever extraction methods are used they had better be seriously low impact. You could tell they were precious about the peat.

 

[gsorense]

Perhaps I have misled you, there is cover on the moss, and there are lots of deer, they just aren't on the land in question. SNH only own about 90 out of 800Ha of the overall site. The rest is private or FCS and has other stalkers on it. SNH's problem is that they are telling the other land owners to control their deer and yet aren't controlling their own. They were open and honest about this. I think they are stuck between a rock and a hard place, i liked the site and i liked the SNH staff, I will still put a bid in as I think it will still be good for us, plus I like a challenge. They will be hot on ground damage though, what ever extraction methods are used they had better be seriously low impact. You could tell they were precious about the peat.

Thanks for the feedback, very interesting. Given my location I will clearly not be bidding but it sounds like a great challenge for someone.

 

[Chanty Wrassler]

Just looking on PCS and they state the previous cull figure average 1 deer per year!!
That must be some of the toughest stalking around??
Would love to be part of the team that take on the mammoth task!!

They want the mammoths culled ? Wow! You'd need a serious calibre for that. Gralloch and extraction would take some planning.

 

[slider]

Perhaps I have misled you, there is cover on the moss, and there are lots of deer, they just aren't on the land in question. SNH only own about 90 out of 800Ha of the overall site. The rest is private or FCS and has other stalkers on it. SNH's problem is that they are telling the other land owners to control their deer and yet aren't controlling their own. They were open and honest about this. I think they are stuck between a rock and a hard place, i liked the site and i liked the SNH staff, I will still put a bid in as I think it will still be good for us, plus I like a challenge. They will be hot on ground damage though, what ever extraction methods are used they had better be seriously low impact. You could tell they were precious about the peat.

Thanks for the clarification. I know the area and the peatland objective and so can understand SNH's position - good luck with your bid

 

[Mr lead free]

lots of night shooting licenses around the moss

 

[countrryboy]

Are the deer actually causing any damage to the moss itself??

I know elsewhere the fcs decided to stop culling deer in the hope they would eat all the birch and stop regen effectively halting succesion, it never worked and just ended up with loads of really skinny roe.


Very informaitve TomD, could see someone with more money than sense putitng in big money for it (and if its as u describe SNH should really bite his hand off and take the money) sounds like wot ever they cull won't make a big difference in the grand scheme of things locally