Stock Flex?

[Leglas]

I was up in the Highlands a little while back and took the opportunity to pop into the local RFD - great shop with a good selection of guns and fishing tackle too.
Being a Schultz & Larsen fan and having an open slot for a .222 I asked if they happened to stock the Legacy model. The chap I was speaking to was knowledgable and really very helpful, but what he said took me by surprise a little. I am, I should point out, very much still learning when it comes to rifles and stalking, so I'm still trying to sort through a lot of info and get my bearings. Little chance to handle a variety of guns here in Glasgow, the shops have poor selections and there's been this pandemic lately, so most of my knowledge is from here/reviews.

They sell Tikka, Sako and Sauer (the latter were lovely rifles!) in this shop. Schultz & Larsen (which they don't sell..) are apparently 'niche' rifles I was told which, are equivalent to an £800/£900 Howa or Remington. The man in the shop showed me the bolt difference between the Tikka (which he claimed was miles better than the S&L) and a Sako - 2 lugs vs 3. I tried both bolts on a T3x and an 85 and to my memory, my Victory was a lot smoother, felt more solid and had 3 lugs (which was sited as a higher-end feature on the 85). He said with modern production methods, any half decent rifle will shoot sub 1" groups at 100yds - which does make sense. What really surprised me though was when he said the wooden stocks on the S&Ls and some early Sauers were no good for hill stalking because they flexed on a bipod. Apparently German (and I presume Danish) hunters always shoot off sticks so bipod shots aren't a consideration when they make guns, but if you need to shoot a wounded animal at 300 yds or so on moorland, the stock flex would be a big issue. I know there's a degree of sales patter in putting down the S&L (although I do know a gamekeeper who says similar, but I suspect that's down to wanting to have an opinion whilst not having tried one) but the stock flex got me curious - is there much truth in that?

 

[WSSX]

Can any wood temporarily flex that much?! Strikes me as unlikely, and no one has told my Victory it can't be shot off a bipod. Warping I could understand, but that's obviously something quite different.

As to S&Ls being £900 Howas, well...that's just silly. They'll all shoot, obviously, but anyone who has handled both can tell you they're quite different beasts. Kind of like comparing budget and premium cars and concluding they do the same thing. Which they do, to a point. Depends what you value in the end.

As to the legacy, I think @Cottis has one and speaks highly of it.

 

[Cottis]

I have a Legacy in .222rem. I have handled and shot lots of different rifles including Tikkas.

Surprise surprise, the fishing tackle shop guy who doesn't sell S&L's thinks they are no better than what he does sell ha ha ha. I can catagorically say he is wrong. There is definitely nothing wrong with Tikkas or Howas. I have shot them. They work well and are fine tools. What they are not is in the same ballpark of finish, quality and handling as an S&L.

Below is a picture of 5 shots (yes 5) off a bipod at 100yds with my Schultz. Seems to shoot well. I shoot around 1000 rounds a year through mine, mostly all in anger as a walk about pest control rifle. It accounts for anything from crows up to the odd muntjac if one ambles across my path. I don't baby it. It gets wet if it rains but it is so easy to take apart and clean/dry that I have seen no issue with it. Design of it makes it really easy to clean if it does get grubby. The wood is clearly high quality and quick rub down twice a year with BLO is all it needs. I have seen no wharping but they are properly bedded, so unless you leave it in a sauna, I imagine it will be fine for a few years yet.

It might need a new barrel in a few years but I bet the action will still be going strong. The finish is miles ahead of my other rifles which are Mausers and Anschutz.

 

[404Shooter]

I’m not as experienced as many on here but I do own a Legacy in .223 and I’ve put about 300 rounds through her. About half of those rounds were fired in the prone using a Spartan bipod. Am I as good a shot as @Cottis? No, but I’d wager my Legacy is as accurate as his, and demonstrates about the same amount of stock flex - negligible. It’s a beautifully engineered and beautifully made rifle and I’d recommend you get hold of one before you give in to the salesman’s patter and buy one of the tikka/sako/howa rifles he’s struggling to shift......l

 

[ejg]

Of course stocks flex. Any material does under load. Bad combination is a stock with a long forend, thin/narrow, wood or cheap injection moulded plastic and the curse of the stalking rifle.... the small gap between stock and barrel.
The flex alone is not a huge issue it is more that a stock can touch the barrel under certain conditions. Or the pressure points on some stocks. Pressure bedded stock with transfer the resting pressure 1:1 onto the barrel. Since the resting pressure will vary with different positions it is not a good thing. Rifles built for precision shooting mostly have wider stronger forend and often made of stronger stiffer materials.
edi

 

[Leglas]

I have a Legacy in .222rem. I have handled and shot lots of different rifles including Tikkas.

Surprise surprise, the fishing tackle shop guy who doesn't sell S&L's thinks they are no better than what he does sell ha ha ha. I can catagorically say he is wrong. There is definitely nothing wrong with Tikkas or Howas. I have shot them. They work well and are fine tools. What they are not is in the same ballpark of finish, quality and handling as an S&L.

Below is a picture of 5 shots (yes 5) off a bipod at 100yds with my Schultz. Seems to shoot well. I shoot around 1000 rounds a year through mine, mostly all in anger as a walk about pest control rifle. It accounts for anything from crows up to the odd muntjac if one ambles across my path. I don't baby it. It gets wet if it rains but it is so easy to take apart and clean/dry that I have seen no issue with it. Design of it makes it really easy to clean if it does get grubby. The wood is clearly high quality and quick rub down twice a year with BLO is all it needs. I have seen no wharping but they are properly bedded, so unless you leave it in a sauna, I imagine it will be fine for a few years yet.

It might need a new barrel in a few years but I bet the action will still be going strong. The finish is miles ahead of my other rifles which are Mausers and Anschutz.

Dammit Cotis, I was half hoping there was some truth in what he said to stop me forking out for a Legacy, but S&L it is. Fantastic grouping there, the rifle is doing its job, but there's a good bit of skill in that too.

 

[Leglas]

I’m not as experienced as many on here but I do own a Legacy in .223 and I’ve put about 300 rounds through her. About half of those rounds were fired in the prone using a Spartan bipod. Am I as good a shot as @Cottis? No, but I’d wager my Legacy is as accurate as his, and demonstrates about the same amount of stock flex - negligible. It’s a beautifully engineered and beautifully made rifle and I’d recommend you get hold of one before you give in to the salesman’s patter and buy one of the tikka/sako/howa rifles he’s struggling to shift......l

I actually put in an order for a very different gun (from a different shop too), a Bergara BA13 takedown to fill the slot, but it won't scratch the itch - but it's less than a third of the price and will be a good stand-in until finances allow.

 

[Cottis]

Dammit Cotis, I was half hoping there was some truth in what he said to stop me forking out for a Legacy, but S&L it is. Fantastic grouping there, the rifle is doing its job, but there's a good bit of skill in that too.

.222 is a very accurate round and this is from a very well put together hand load but i expect a good few .222's could replicate that precision when a good load is used with a good shot and also good conditions and a sprinkling of fortune.

You don't see many rubbish .222's but the Legacy is a lovely rifle to shoot. If you go that way, you will not be disappointed but you also don't need to spend that much to realise that level of performance in terms of grouping. Its just a very pleasurable way of getting to the destination

 

[User00026]

Yeah that’s the gunshop just trying to sell you anything they ‘do’ stock…shameful really to talk down another brand just because you don’t have them in stock, but 99% of gunshops would probably do the same

 

[Jameshenry]

I actually put in an order for a very different gun (from a different shop too), a Bergara BA13 takedown to fill the slot, but it won't scratch the itch - but it's less than a third of the price and will be a good stand-in until finances allow.

I have a Bergara BA13 in .222, they aren't exactly left wanting in the accuracy department ! 3 shot group i fired resting out of my truck window

 

[Tazz]

I have a Legacy in .222rem. I have handled and shot lots of different rifles including Tikkas.

Surprise surprise, the fishing tackle shop guy who doesn't sell S&L's thinks they are no better than what he does sell ha ha ha. I can catagorically say he is wrong. There is definitely nothing wrong with Tikkas or Howas. I have shot them. They work well and are fine tools. What they are not is in the same ballpark of finish, quality and handling as an S&L.

Below is a picture of 5 shots (yes 5) off a bipod at 100yds with my Schultz. Seems to shoot well. I shoot around 1000 rounds a year through mine, mostly all in anger as a walk about pest control rifle. It accounts for anything from crows up to the odd muntjac if one ambles across my path. I don't baby it. It gets wet if it rains but it is so easy to take apart and clean/dry that I have seen no issue with it. Design of it makes it really easy to clean if it does get grubby. The wood is clearly high quality and quick rub down twice a year with BLO is all it needs. I have seen no wharping but they are properly bedded, so unless you leave it in a sauna, I imagine it will be fine for a few years yet.

It might need a new barrel in a few years but I bet the action will still be going strong. The finish is miles ahead of my other rifles which are Mausers and Anschutz.

We’re you not worried about the stringing

 

[WSSX]

We’re you not worried about the stringing

Ahahaha come on, I'm sure he has sleepless nights over it

 

[Tazz]

Ahahaha come on, I'm sure he has sleepless nights over it

It would just plant the seed of doubt in your mind, is all I am saying

 

[WSSX]

If we were talking about a string spread over of an inch+ then maybe I'd dwell on it, but at fractions of an inch? Nah. Even if every group takes the same shape, it's going to be pretty difficult to rule out the shooter at that point, no?

Anyway, I think many on this forum have rude dreams involving groups that look like that.

 

[Cottis]

We’re you not worried about the stringing

Not slept since the last shot went right.

 

[Tazz]

Not slept since the last shot went right.

I feel your pain

 

[Dan Newcombe]

I have a Legacy in .222rem. I have handled and shot lots of different rifles including Tikkas.

Surprise surprise, the fishing tackle shop guy who doesn't sell S&L's thinks they are no better than what he does sell ha ha ha. I can catagorically say he is wrong. There is definitely nothing wrong with Tikkas or Howas. I have shot them. They work well and are fine tools. What they are not is in the same ballpark of finish, quality and handling as an S&L.

Below is a picture of 5 shots (yes 5) off a bipod at 100yds with my Schultz. Seems to shoot well. I shoot around 1000 rounds a year through mine, mostly all in anger as a walk about pest control rifle. It accounts for anything from crows up to the odd muntjac if one ambles across my path. I don't baby it. It gets wet if it rains but it is so easy to take apart and clean/dry that I have seen no issue with it. Design of it makes it really easy to clean if it does get grubby. The wood is clearly high quality and quick rub down twice a year with BLO is all it needs. I have seen no wharping but they are properly bedded, so unless you leave it in a sauna, I imagine it will be fine for a few years yet.

It might need a new barrel in a few years but I bet the action will still be going strong. The finish is miles ahead of my other rifles which are Mausers and Anschutz.

You shouldn’t be set up high at 100. It’s wrong and doesn’t work …….. apparently

 

[Cottis]

You shouldn’t be set up high at 100. It’s wrong and doesn’t work …….. apparently

Must admit, all my rifles are zeroed at 100yds but when doing load development, I crank up a few clicks so the POI is away from my POA so I can aim more accurately without guessing which bit of the peppered target I should be aiming at.

When I am shooting at night though, all rifles are cranked up an inch at 100yd and then moved back to 100yd zero for daytime shooting when I take shots further than a coupla hundred yds. Both work fine. I think if I only shot deer out to 200yds or so, I would definitely zero an inch high at a ton.