Rake Aboot
Well-Known Member
So what gives you or anyone else a greater right to go into the country and wander ?
What give you the right to "welcome" anyone.?
Strangest Thing Interrupted While Stalking/Shooting
- Thread starter tweekes89
- Start date
So what gives you or anyone else a greater right to go into the country and wander ?
What give you the right to "welcome" anyone.?
I think you will find that trespass certainly does exist in England. It’s a tort (a civil wrong) rather than a criminal offence.
Got to agree with Slider
The right to roam is a misnomer
It’s a right to responsible access
And unfortunately some people / land owners / land workers are finding that it’s not a minority that’s spoiling it or do no oresponsoble damage etc
It’s the majority ! Of people who are coming onto lands and causing damage , litter, crop damage and now we are having fires .
Rubbish ... animals livestock let loose ... or worse killed maimed by uncontrolled dogs .
Yet when challenged about their behavior it’s a case of
“ **** off I have right to roam “
No body’s saying people don’t have the right to the countryside
What I and others are saying that this access comes with responsibilities and a lot of people are finding those responsibilities ignored with often bad consequences
Not asking much for those to actually heed countryside act etc
Paul
Indeed. There is a difference between open access land and excepted land.
If I see someone off the footpath on our land which is directly interfering with whatever work is going on, they are asked politely to go back to the footpath and not re-offend. Trespass alone is a civil offence, not criminal.
Kids are generally just kids and as long as they are doing no harm, I generally leave them to it but adults are the worst. Dog walkers not clearing up after themselves, dogs off leads and running under hedges all year, chasing game, running around livestock, litterbugs. The list goes on. People are just inconsiderate. It is a fact of life.
One of the more random things I saw when shooting, was some random guy who had accessed the land with these high powered rocket things which he launched in to orbit, eventually returning to earth via a parachute. I heard this massive whoosh when going for a wander and found him with all his stuff ha ha ha. I was gobsmacked. I was like "what the holy f*** do you think you are doing?" ha ha ha. He just argued that it was fine and he wasn't doing any harm. I still laugh when I think of him and the conversation we had. He just could not grasp that he was on private land and that it would have been polite for him to ask permission to utilise the ground to send his plastic tubes in to orbit. Madness.
Another time, I was returning from one of the top fields which is away from any footpath. I had shot a handful of rabbits and had the rifle over my shoulder and was carrying a coupla three bunnies in each hand. Out of nowhere 4 dogs appeared without owner and naturally wanted the rabbits. I could do little to keep them off me, so I threw down a couple of the rabbits which they started fighting over and called out for the owner who eventually appeared out of breath. He got a proper mouthful and a massive bollocking. He actually had the audacity to question if it was legal for me to be in public with a gun ha ha ha. Hmmmm, definitely more legal than you trespassing on private land and having out of control dogs who have basically just robbed me of my dinner for the next few nights.
Like I said, way too many people fail to think about the results of their selfish and inconsiderate actions.
Sonicdmb73
Well-Known Member
Apparently you need six
I am not welcoming anyone. The Country and the countryside are.
It's not about giving any one a greater right to wander, it's simply ensuring that those that chose to exercise that right do so responsibility. The Scottish Outdoor Access Code is a code of practice just like the Highway Code. Blatantly ignoring the Highway Code risks losing the right to drive on the roads. Metering out individual sanctions under SOAC is more difficult, so what we see is the introduction of by laws that affect everyone, such as the wild camping ban in the Loch Lomond National Park.
You seem to think I don't want people in the countryside. That is not the case. I simply want them to act responsibility when they are there, just as I must act responsibility by anticipating that they might be there while I am going about my business.
foxdropper
Well-Known Member
Yep!! Start a Stalkers midnight, quiet, picnic club, centred in Rakey's garden. Right to roam isn't it. All private land is available for this activity and bring your dogs.
Private land is private land eg Zoos, Castles, Game fairs etc and entry can be charged for, if the public are notified. (England).
We have notices in every gateway advising the Public that there is "No Entry without permission" in writing ( Address of office and web site shown)." Anyone entering without permission will be charged £.... " This is fair and one or two people have taken advantage by ringing up or writing to gain permission. It works on the basis that they ring if they want to enter, just in case we are shooting or stalking, and I say yea or nay at that particular time.
Rake Aboot
Well-Known Member
Well, without descending into child like comments, private gardens are excluded from the right to roam in Scotland. You're privacy is preserved.
As for charging people to access the countryside, well Scotland has it right. People are as entitled to access the country they live in as much as you or anyone else.
landkeeper
Well-Known Member
well i disagree strongly , i think if you have bought and paid for something or one of your predesesors di then you should be entitled to say who does and doesn't set foot on it .strangers walking and looking at anything and everything they wish just increases theft, damage ,imho plus theres allways these days some chancer looking for a insurance payday .i have had fences cut because folk wanted to get out of a field but the gate was too far away , gates left open and stock mixed , sheep chased over the boundry and into drains took 3 weeks to gather them all apart from the 4ks worth floating in a drain . the list goes on and on
Sonicdmb73
Well-Known Member
Might I ask are you a farmer?
I was in the Yorkshire Dales National Park and later just outside it. My experience with the problems the public and their perceived rights. Brought direct conflict with farming practices. With the disturbance of livestock. Destruction of feed crops and littering of the landscape.
I have no objection to people using the countryside. But it is not a playground it’s a working landscape. Which if they want to look at the beautiful view, takes hard work to maintain. I don’t think it’s too much to ask people follow the law. We have to.
Come on don't be a spoilsport let's have a party in your garden, I'll only bring four dogs, or are you a NIMBY. Talk about double standards.
Swedish
Well-Known Member
Its probably worth remembering that the British taxpayer pays out an awful lot of money on the countryside in the way of farming subsidies. All the farms in the valley that I live in receive a considerable wedge and they are not large farms, mostly between 150 and 300 acres and all getting between £20K to £70K per annum and that mostly goes into one single household. Many of these farmers are decent folk but a noisy few are some of the most entitled arseholes that it has been my displeasure to meet. Here is a page that you can look up where the money goes. The search engine is not as easy to operate as it looks but it makes for interesting and sometimes startling reading: Defra, UK - CAP Payments Search
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Rake Aboot
Well-Known Member
Why ? how many people come through your garden ? None is the answer. No double standards here.
Very interesting....my local agri businesses are raking it in, as is the county wildlife trust. Well lets hope they are making good use of our money.
Swedish
Well-Known Member
Isn't it just? Don't get me wrong, I'm not looking for "unfettered access all areas" for the great unwashed and to be fair many farmers here in the lakes are generally friendly to tourists and walkers but when I hear agri landowners talk about how much land they own that's private etc etc... then it does make me think about all the taxpayers that contribute to that 'mine, bought and paid for' attitude. Fine if you're not taking the grant aid bit a little amoral if you are...
Sonicdmb73
Well-Known Member
The alternative is for farmers to work solely for maximum production and profit. At the expense of the wildlife and habitat that the current payment system revolves around.
Government policy has dictated what farmers do with their land. People would be very quick to complain if farm payments stopped. Especially when the cost hit their shopping basket.
These are the same landowners many rely on for their pastime too.
I worked very hard to agree deals with our landlord. For large areas of tree planting. Along with the labour provided free of charge to fence off those areas. I didn’t put all that effort in to have some numpty ruin it with rubbish and wild uncontrollable dogs.
Swedish
Well-Known Member
Its not quite as black and white as that though is it? I do know, we have farmers in my family. I'd be happy to see high taxation on imported foods so that our farmers can be paid a proper competitive rate for the produce that they grow. For just one example, a third of the lamb consumed in the UK is imported. We should pay more more for decent food. Our consumer society is driven by how cheap the food is, rather than how good it is. That would help to wean our agricultural system off benefits and help to make farming into a proper industry. In turn the tax burden could lessen too, I think we all appreciate that grant aid of some sort will always be required to compensate farmers for countryside stewardship schemes that would otherwise not be undertaken for the reasons you mention and I don't think anyone would begrudge that. However whilst hard working taxpayers pay so much towards countryside upkeep then I'm afraid that there will be some sort of proprietary feelings towards it whether we like it or not. I certainly wouldn't want to see yours, mine or anyone else's efforts destroyed by stupid unthinking people but I'm not sure how we police that.
There is also the question of a number of extremely wealthy farmers and related companies that exploit the grant system to make enormous profits for very little effort, the 'slipper farmers' in Scotland for instance have been pillaging the system for decades with some individuals receiving millions of pounds per year, using portions of it to acquire vast tracts of poor land and further compound the income. I don't see them ploughing their fields with their Bentley Coupes. Meanwhile Lakeland, Welsh and hill farmers elsewhere work themselves to the bone for very little reward.
landkeeper
Well-Known Member
Yes 1/3rd of the lamb consumed here is imported, mostly from NZ!! it comes in the form of chilled legs, which because they are getting good money for the premium cut of the carcass they can fly in .Now if the eurocrat in charge of the negotiations at the time had thought to use the phrase 'lamb carcass' instead of just lamb then this would be a different scenario. it wouldn't be an economic proposition for NZ
Sonicdmb73
Well-Known Member
I am well aware of the fact that some abuse the system. I am also well aware of the hardships hill farmers have to deal with, I was one.
No it isn’t as black and white as that. But that’s not an excuse for any Tom Dick or Harry to do as they please.
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