Sub-sonic steel shotgun cartridges?

[timbrayford]

Near to me is a clay pigeon shooting ground with a restriction that they are only permitted to use sub-sonic fibre wad cartridges, but do steel sub-sonic shot cartridges actually exist, if not what affordable alternative is available?

 

[BryanDC]

Apparently Gamebore make a steel subsonic with a fibre cup and felt wad but not sure where you can get them in the UK. 270287FSCSS

So steel sub sonics do exist. I can get them here with plastic wads easily. Maybe try contacting Gamebore.

 

[simgre]

I’m not aware of any steel shot cartridges that are fibre wad. That said, I’m also not aware of any sub sonic steel cartridges…

 

[simgre]

Clearly I know little!

What I do know is that I have been using Gamebore Super Steel for Skeet for about a year now. I’m seeing no appreciative difference, but the steel cartridges do “feel” different in use.

 

[tackb]

Apparently Gamebore make a steel subsonic with a fibre cup and felt wad but not sure where you can get them in the UK. 270287FSCSS

So steel sub sonics do exist. I can get them here with plastic wads easily. Maybe try contacting Gamebore.

just had a look on gamebores website and nothing jumps out at me , the only sub load i could see was lead?

 

[BryanDC]

just had a look on gamebores website and nothing jumps out at me , the only sub load i could see was lead?

Here you go. As I say it is not a UK site. (Austrian). But it shows they are available from gamebore. Try calling them.

 

[BryanDC]

Also these from Gamebore with plastic wad. Sold here but don't appear on their uk website.

 

[tackb]

Also these from Gamebore with plastic wad. Sold here but don't appear on their uk website. View attachment 429881

maybe they will become available when we are forced to use the less good steel for spurious political reasons.

 

[timbrayford]

To ask another question are they available for the bore sizes smaller than 12?

 

[BryanDC]

To ask another question are they available for the bore sizes smaller than 12?

I have no idea. Maybe try google. Or as I say maybe try calling Gamebore. With a ban on lead ammunition coming, it is in their's and other manufacturers best interest to step up development of non- lead alternatives.

But out of interest. How big do you think the market is for sub-sonic ammunition in smaller calibres generally? Is it 10% of the size of subsonic 12 bore or is it more like 1% . When you take out 20 bore I wonder what size the market is then?

 

[timbrayford]

I have no idea. Maybe try google. Or as I say maybe try calling Gamebore. With a ban on lead ammunition coming, it is in their's and other manufacturers best interest to step up development of non- lead alternatives.

But out of interest. How big do you think the market is for sub-sonic ammunition in smaller calibres generally? Is it 10% of the size of subsonic 12 bore or is it more like 1% . When you take out 20 bore I wonder what size the market is then?

HM Govt. & BASC etc. assure us that the alternatives are available, unlike them I thought that I'd try and get an idea of the true and accurate picture , and certainly an email to Gamebore is worth following up. I'll post later on when I've had a response.

 

[BryanDC]

HM Govt. & BASC etc. assure us that the alternatives are available, unlike them I thought that I'd try and get an idea of the true and accurate picture , and certainly an email to Gamebore is worth following up. I'll post later on when I've had a response.

Sounds good. I look forward to hearing their response.

 

[timbrayford]

Just emailed Gamebore.
It rather begs the question of why the shooting orgs haven't already got this sorted, it maybe that the shooting community is better off leaving them to play their own silly games and just look after ourselves without wasting time and money on them

 

[timbrayford]

Got a reply from Gamebore, it doesn't look like the sub-sonic lead alternative will exist for the foreseeable future, it does rather call into question the knowledge, competence and indeed the motivation of the so-called shooting organisations:-

Good Afternoon,
Thank you for your enquiry.
Unfortunately we don’t have a product that meets those specific requirements – the powder we use for our subsonic lead loads will not work with steel shot.
Also, we don’t have a twenty bore biodegradable wad cup to contain the steel pellets to prevent them from coming in to contact with the barrels of the gun. (Only plastic wad cups)
Over time this situation may change as we work towards the announced three-year lead ban, however we do need to prioritise the development of the non-lead loads that will be more in demand – any products considered niche in nature (such as a subsonic, twenty-bore, steel, non-plastic wad load) might potentially follow after that, providing that the powder manufacturers also work towards the development of new, steel specific powders. At the moment it’s too soon to know what will become available.
Kind regards,
Lydia Abdelaoui
Gamebore

 

[Bowland blades]

I wouldn't shoot Game with Subsonic steel . I like fast steel , actually i like to send steel as fast as i can ( it makes a massive difference ) I must caution about steel ricochet ( have been hit and so has my daughter ) Where there are trees etc its common , safety specs are more than wise if your only shooting into open sky . Number 5 steel can easy blind you at a decent "bounce back" AND ITS COMMON . That said one of the Old guys in my old wildfowling club lost an eye shooting at Birds coming into trees ( USING LEAD)

 

[BryanDC]

Got a reply from Gamebore, it doesn't look like the sub-sonic lead alternative will exist for the foreseeable future, it does rather call into question the knowledge, competence and indeed the motivation of the so-called shooting organisations:-

Good Afternoon,
Thank you for your enquiry.
Unfortunately we don’t have a product that meets those specific requirements – the powder we use for our subsonic lead loads will not work with steel shot.
Also, we don’t have a twenty bore biodegradable wad cup to contain the steel pellets to prevent them from coming in to contact with the barrels of the gun. (Only plastic wad cups)
Over time this situation may change as we work towards the announced three-year lead ban, however we do need to prioritise the development of the non-lead loads that will be more in demand – any products considered niche in nature (such as a subsonic, twenty-bore, steel, non-plastic wad load) might potentially follow after that, providing that the powder manufacturers also work towards the development of new, steel specific powders. At the moment it’s too soon to know what will become available.
Kind regards,
Lydia Abdelaoui
Gamebore

That seems very strange. I could buy the plastic wadded subsonics tomorrow if I wanted to. They are in stock. And if gamebore don't make them, where does the Austrian site get their subsonic, fibre cup wad ammo.
I understand completely that they will work on the big sellers first. But it seems odd that they say they can't. I wonder if they are not allowed to seel it elsewhere as part of some agreement.

 

[timbrayford]

I wouldn't shoot Game with Subsonic steel . I like fast steel , actually i like to send steel as fast as i can ( it makes a massive difference ) I must caution about steel ricochet ( have been hit and so has my daughter ) Where there are trees etc its common , safety specs are more than wise if your only shooting into open sky . Number 5 steel can easy blind you at a decent "bounce back" AND ITS COMMON . That said one of the Old guys in my old wildfowling club lost an eye shooting at Birds coming into trees ( USING LEAD)

That seems very strange. I could buy the plastic wadded subsonics tomorrow if I wanted to. They are in stock. And if gamebore don't make them, where does the Austrian site get their subsonic, fibre cup wad ammo.
I understand completely that they will work on the big sellers first. But it seems odd that they say they can't. I wonder if they are not allowed to seel it elsewhere as part of some agreement.

In 20 bore?

 

[ruger77]

If you are definitely interested in some 12 gauge subs with fibre wad cup I could have a look at developing a load on the test gun , when completed you would have the option to load your own cartridges or I could look at supplying some due to the time and cost that goes into developing a cartridge this offer would not be available if you just need the odd box here and there

 

[BryanDC]

In 20 bore?

Then I have misunderstood the reply. But then again I would ask. How big is the market for 20b subsonics. It must be tiny. So it is understandable it's not a priority.

 

[timbrayford]

If you are definitely interested in some 12 gauge subs with fibre wad cup I could have a look at developing a load on the test gun , when completed you would have the option to load your own cartridges or I could look at supplying some due to the time and cost that goes into developing a cartridge this offer would not be available if you just need the odd box here and there

Thanks for the offer but I only use 20 bore & .410