Talk me through chronographs?

[wildfowler.250]

Right folks, do I need one? And what make / model / cost?

Or do I hire one? I do like to have stuff available as needed though but probably a more financially sensible option.


Previously I’ve loaded up batches of 1-2 bullets towards max charge to check they’re safe. Then shot 4-5 groups. Tended to pick the best grouping load with a reasonable rough textbook velocity as a guide,(.270 / 6.5x55) and gone from there.

Now my shooting is all close, sub 200 usually. But I’d really like to know the velocity accurately and potentially gauge drop better - as well as paper punching to confirm this in real life.

A chrono would let me use quickload?

Would let me find a node for a more efficient load?

And potentially let me do load development with less rounds?


Talk me through it. Gradually adding bits over the years and never really regretted it once the costs are forgotten. The electronic powder dispenser over scales was a gamechanger! I’ve changed primers - not through choice - so need to start new loads again from square one.


Thanks!

 

[jthyttin]

When testing "towards max charge" as you say, knowing the velocity is real boon. Another good thing is to know when your velocity starts to decrease / increase (after several dozen or hundred shots). That could tell you the rifle needs deep cleaning, throat has eroded and so on.

Also getting all the velocities while testing for groups, zeroing and so on, will give you more truthful understanding of the real velocity variation of your load. Have to take conditions, especially temperature (and how long rifle / ammo has been subjected to the temp) into account.

So, I wouldn't say chrono will let do load development with less rounds, but it wil give you more info. Current doppler type chronos (Garmin being most popular) are real easy to use while at the range so you can use them every time. Traditional type chronos still have their place (or magnetospeed) if you're e.g. testing bullets at close range wetpack.

I'd say you get the most benefit from chrono when leasing / loaning when doing initial load development. After that the benefits are diminishing to "nice to have" level. In some discliplines the ongoing use will be more beneficial.

 

[jcampbellsmith]

In an ideal world I would chrono every shot that I fire. The Garmin Xero gets me close to that.
Regards
JCS

 

[Heym SR20]

For vast majority of deer stalking purposes you don’t need to worry about velocity. Work on finding an accurate load and then go hunting. Bullet choice is important.

In terms of accuracy, an inch and a bit is more than good enough.

Following load data will give a pretty good idea of velocity. However if you are running a short barrel it will be quite a bit lower.

If reloading and accuracy is your thing and your hobby, then a chronograph can add additional data that may or may not help you tune your loads. Cost and faff factor has been a major barrier to entry. But the recent Garmen seems to me to be a very simple tool to use.

Personally, I reload for hunting purposes and I don’t shoot at a range where i need to worry about dialing etc. (if I did I would shoot and measure my drops on paper.) so velocity is not really something I worry about.

 

[Malxwal]

You'll be able to establish nodes accurately, see ES/SD, monitor behaviour/condition of barrel.
True, as Heym says, measure velocities by measuring drop. But if you have any leanings towards developing longer range accuracy loads, I'd say a simple to use, accurate chrono a la Garmin is a must.
In terms of Quikload, it may have you questioning theoretical velocities and pressures, but bear in mind powder temperature, sensitivity to temperature, and specific energy variations.
I doubt you'd regret ownership. So easy to use, so compact, a big step forward from chronos of old.

 

[Foxyboy43]

Hmmm.
In all my years of reloading I have never had access to a chronograph then this year I had access to two within a few weeks of each other! I really enjoyed seeing what my homeloads were trundling along at and apart from the one batch of copper (no longer used!) there were no great surprises in terms of velocity but one or two in terms of consistency - my accuracy pet load of .308 125gns Prohunters had an ES of 80(!) whilst my rarely used but also accurate 150gns SST had an ES of 2(yep 2). Of course the velocities were down on some equivalent factory rounds claims but always bear in mind their velocities are “optimistic” and likely shot from a 26”+ barrel which does add velocity (25/30fps per inch if memory serves).
In short it was an interesting couple of sessions measuring everything from .22 subs through .222, 6.5x55 SE, .308 subs and full fat .308. Did it improve my shooting and the various accuracies therein? Nope and unless I was competition shooting or live shooting beyond say 250yards I see no benefit in tweaking my existing recipes (though I am tempted to look at the 125gns but then again what would the drop/energy loss be at say 150yds for a deficit of 80fps travelling just south of 3,000?).
Both times I used a Garmin, a highly impressive bit of kit and in a tiny package but at c.£500 I will not be buying one. As a club accessory or bought between a few pals they would certainly give useful information and perhaps reassurance to many shooters - particularly for range shooting. Soooo call me old-fashioned but I prefer to judge my efforts by accuracy and dead animals…..

 

[cjm1066]

The garmin allows me to record every shot on the range, thus in time the Standard Deviation becomes meaningful although some variance due to weather conditions is likely.

However recording and developing loads using 3 or 5 shots doesn’t provide statically valid data. Accuracy never lies!

 

[Heym SR20]

Hmmm.
In all my years of reloading I have never had access to a chronograph then this year I had access to two within a few weeks of each other! I really enjoyed seeing what my homeloads were trundling along at and apart from the one batch of copper (no longer used!) there were no great surprises in terms of velocity but one or two in terms of consistency - my accuracy pet load of .308 125gns Prohunters had an ES of 80(!) whilst my rarely used but also accurate 150gns SST had an ES of 2(yep 2). Of course the velocities were down on some equivalent factory rounds claims but always bear in mind their velocities are “optimistic” and likely shot from a 26”+ barrel which does add velocity (25/30fps per inch if memory serves).
In short it was an interesting couple of sessions measuring everything from .22 subs through .222, 6.5x55 SE, .308 subs and full fat .308. Did it improve my shooting and the various accuracies therein? Nope and unless I was competition shooting or live shooting beyond say 250yards I see no benefit in tweaking my existing recipes (though I am tempted to look at the 125gns but then again what would the drop/energy loss be at say 150yds for a deficit of 80fps travelling just south of 3,000?).
Both times I used a Garmin, a highly impressive bit of kit and in a tiny package but at c.£500 I will not be buying one. As a club accessory or bought between a few pals they would certainly give useful information and perhaps reassurance to many shooters - particularly for range shooting. Soooo call me old-fashioned but I prefer to judge my efforts by accuracy and dead animals…..

Imagine how much shooting you can do with that £500.

 

[PondoroPenguin]

I use a Garmin zero c1, can’t recommend it highly enough after years using a Chrony Beta. I chronograph everything now it’s so easy.

 

[DesG]

I like having a chrono (LMBR) and use it quite often, mostly on my airguns and 22ss, but really only because I like gadgets! Is it really any use? Probably not, except for checking I haven't overdone it with my sub 12ft/lb toys.

 

[Utectok]

Yes you need one and basically the garmin is so much better than anything else it’s a no brainer…..

 

[kenbro]

Hmmm.
In all my years of reloading I have never had access to a chronograph then this year I had access to two within a few weeks of each other! I really enjoyed seeing what my homeloads were trundling along at and apart from the one batch of copper (no longer used!) there were no great surprises in terms of velocity but one or two in terms of consistency - my accuracy pet load of .308 125gns Prohunters had an ES of 80(!) whilst my rarely used but also accurate 150gns SST had an ES of 2(yep 2). Of course the velocities were down on some equivalent factory rounds claims but always bear in mind their velocities are “optimistic” and likely shot from a 26”+ barrel which does add velocity (25/30fps per inch if memory serves).
In short it was an interesting couple of sessions measuring everything from .22 subs through .222, 6.5x55 SE, .308 subs and full fat .308. Did it improve my shooting and the various accuracies therein? Nope and unless I was competition shooting or live shooting beyond say 250yards I see no benefit in tweaking my existing recipes (though I am tempted to look at the 125gns but then again what would the drop/energy loss be at say 150yds for a deficit of 80fps travelling just south of 3,000?).
Both times I used a Garmin, a highly impressive bit of kit and in a tiny package but at c.£500 I will not be buying one. As a club accessory or bought between a few pals they would certainly give useful information and perhaps reassurance to many shooters - particularly for range shooting. Soooo call me old-fashioned but I prefer to judge my efforts by accuracy and dead animals…..

Fb43,
Did you manage to set your Zulus up (using all is gimmicks) without knowing the speed of your bullets?
Ken.

 

[Foxyboy43]

Fb43,
Did you manage to set your Zulus up (using all is gimmicks) without knowing the speed of your bullets?
Ken.

Funny thing is I originally went by the Viht reloading data’s predicted velocities before I had recent access to the chrono - originally I used 2,950 fps but from memory the Garmin machine showed 3,125 fps so I updated the data on the Zulus a couple of weeks ago to the faster speed. TBH I have yet to proof it on the range but real time the foxes have fallen over just the same at just over 200 yards. Be interesting to see what the holdover difference would have been with the additional 175fps - I suspect norralot!

 

[kenbro]

Sounds good.
From issues some have experienced I think the brain in the Zulus must be very active when trying to work out aim points and dealing with nominal BCs and velocity inputs by (Mainly it seems!) ejits.
Ken.
Ps. Still can’t decide whether to get another Zulus or go for another (Much lighter weight) thermal sight.

 

[Foxyboy43]

Sounds good.
From issues some have experienced I think the brain in the Zulus must be very active when trying to work out aim points and dealing with nominal BCs and velocity inputs by (Mainly it seems!) ejits.
Ken.
Ps. Still can’t decide whether to get another Zulus or go for another (Much lighter weight) thermal sight.

I cannot deny the reference to eejits! A certain Scot will no doubt clarify all any remaining confusion for we oul fellas.
I have thought about thermal too but the picture on the Zulus (when properly focussed) is hard to beat. Perhaps when the new evolution of all-singing daylight/thermal/IR scopes give better thermal clarity over distance I will be tempted…

 

[kenbro]

I cannot deny the reference to eejits! A certain Scot will no doubt clarify all any remaining confusion for we oul fellas.
I have thought about thermal too but the picture on the Zulus (when properly focussed) is hard to beat. Perhaps when the new evolution of all-singing daylight/thermal/IR scopes give better thermal clarity over distance I will be tempted…

I don’t have the much time to wait….

 

[Foxyboy43]

I don’t have the much time to wait….

 

[MarinePMI]

Do you need one for hunting purposes? No, not really.

But, more information is usually a good thing (assuming it's statistically relevant), so you just have to decide if you want more information, or if you're fine with what you know.

 

[A Guy Out West]

Shooting under 200 yards, you don’t really need one. That said, I think anyone who handloads should have one. It’s the only real way to verify what your loads are doing. It’s a fun thing. Ease of set up is number one on my book. The new Garmin contraption nails that right on the head. As long as the Garmin is accurate, that would be the one to get. I use an old Ohler 35, it’s cumbersome to set up, I leave it home most days. I’ve had a few friends that had loads that they thought were super, then they ran them through my Ohler and became disappointed. It’s always a good thing to know your actual velocity.

 

[moeggesit]

Hi, you ask about quickload. You cannot use a program like quick load without a chronograph since it is the only way to get an estimated pressure. The only other way is to send batches to the proof houses to measure the max pressure and confirm it’s within CIP standards (they don’t do any other standard). The program simply estimates pressure. You also have to consider that the hundreds of settings in quickload match your load components and rifle. If the pressure does not tie up with quick load you have a problem.

Depending on where you shoot conventional shoot over is fine, if you use a range with other people it does not work. Stay away from anything too fancy like lab radar unless you have loads of time just to learn how to use it. I use a magnetospeed sporter since it fits to the rifle like a bayonet and you just turn it on.