The 6.5’s

[eldon]

Yes thanks @Mr B the page you linked to indicates I'm following your path in theory at least

I recall using Blc2 in a 308 when I started reloading and having some marvellous flames coming out of the end

So, a faster powder in a 16" prc pushing say 120 gr bullets could be an interesting performer. Anyone any idea of an anticipated velocity?

 

[Mr B]

Yes thanks @Mr B

I recall using Blc2 in a 308 when I started reloading and having some marvellous flames coming out of the end

So, a faster powder in a 16" prc pushing say 120 gr bullets could be an interesting performer. Anyone any idea of an anticipated velocity?

I can run some quickload calculations for you when I’m home late next week if it helps. I seem to recall MV around 2,800fps using N560 or N565 with a 130 ish grain bullet in an 18” barrel with high 90s percent powder burn. That has top end of the safe loads, but memory may fail me so don’t take my word for it until I have the laptop in front of me again. That was using a blaser which luckily had a short overall rifle length anyway due to the action size. Offer’s there before you spec a barrel anyway, cheers

 

[eldon]

I can run some quickload calculations for you when I’m home late next week if it helps. I seem to recall MV around 2,800fps using N560 or N565 with a 130 ish grain bullet in an 18” barrel with high 90s percent powder burn. That has top end of the safe loads, but memory may fail me so don’t take my word for it until I have the laptop in front of me again. That was using a blaser which luckily had a short overall rifle length anyway due to the action size. Offer’s there before you spec a barrel anyway, cheers

Yes please, that would be interesting.

My thinking was there are plenty of short barrelled 308's, and so with the 6.5 bullets having better bc's could it beat the velocity of 308's in the short rifle game.

I have a 24" 308 and a 20" 6.5 creed already, the creed isn't anything special speed wise at that length but noticeably handier.

 

[Mr B]

Yes please, that would be interesting.

My thinking was there are plenty of short barrelled 308's, and so with the 6.5 bullets having better bc's could it beat the velocity of 308's in the short rifle game.

I have a 24" 308 and a 20" 6.5 creed already, the creed isn't anything special speed wise at that length but noticeably handier.

I’m no “ballistician” but as far as I understand, the issue with trying to get high MV from a narrower projectile is that there’s less surface area for the gas to act upon which means higher pressure. Slower burning powders are required to ensure you don’t hit max pressure. This is where you can end up with unburnt powder once the bullet has life the pipe. A constant balance of multiple parameters! I’ll run some quickload stuff at the end of the week if you PM me with bullet specs, chosen powder, and the range of barrel lengths you’re considering.

 

[TringSaint]

I’m no “ballistician” but as far as I understand, the issue with trying to get high MV from a narrower projectile is that there’s less surface area for the gas to act upon which means higher pressure. Slower burning powders are required to ensure you don’t hit max pressure. This is where you can end up with unburnt powder once the bullet has life the pipe. A constant balance of multiple parameters! I’ll run some quickload stuff at the end of the week if you PM me with bullet specs, chosen powder, and the range of barrel lengths you’re considering.

I have this discussion with Paul regularly when he is loading for me.
He says that he often gets customers asking for rounds to be made up so that they have an MV of x,y or Z and that the customer believes that this is the only way forwards.
Conversely, he creates loads for the rifle, not just the cartridge, so will find the sweet spot of MV vs accuracy for that specific gun (he takes the gun from you and develops the load and tests it until it’s perfect) and loads to that point.
He loads for a lot of very well known stalkers in the community, including ones who shoot big game and they all trust his expertise on accuracy vs MV. As he says, there is no point making a load that pushes the tolerances of the cartridge just for the purpose of making it quicker if the outcome is that the inherent accuracy drops.

Paul loads for all 3 of my stalking rifles and I cannot fault the ammunition that he makes for me, even if the MV is only modest (not that I or the deer would know!!).

 

[Dalua]

Heart wants a PRC. Head says rebarrel .270 to a 6.5x55 and sense is probably the 6.5CM?

Interestingly, 20 years ago I had a 6.5x55 Finnlight (20.5" barrel, or so) rebarrelled with a 23" .270 tube, and have never looked back.

 

[TringSaint]

Yes please, that would be interesting.

My thinking was there are plenty of short barrelled 308's, and so with the 6.5 bullets having better bc's could it beat the velocity of 308's in the short rifle game.

I have a 24" 308 and a 20" 6.5 creed already, the creed isn't anything special speed wise at that length but noticeably handier.

I have a 22” 243, 20” 6.5x55 and a 16” 308 which is my woodland stalking rifle.
All work just fine with ‘sensible’ loads.

 

[eldon]

I have a 22” 243, 20” 6.5x55 and a 16” 308 which is my woodland stalking rifle.
All work just fine with ‘sensible’ loads.

Please share your 16" 308 load recipe and expected velocity?
What rifle is your 308?

Thanks.

 

[TringSaint]

Please share your 16" 308 load recipe and expected velocity?
What rifle is your 308?

Thanks.

I have no idea what the load recipe is - all I know is that it’s loaded with 150gn Hornady ELDX bullets.
Paul does all of the load work for me as I have no desire to home load!

The rifle was originally a 26” barrelled Remington 700 SPS which Jack from JR Firearms in Eaton Bray cut down to 16” for me.
It sits in an MDT oryx stock with a Rudolph 2.5-15x50 scope on it and a DPT mod.

 

[Foxyboy43]

Here is Sako’s take on some of the calibres under discussion - if you read their stats there is less than a centimetre between them at 200m and just double that at 300 i.e. nothing to worry about. They will all drop any deer at silly distances too…

 

[jthyttin]

some of the calibres under discussion - if you read their stats there is less than a centimetre between them at 200m and just double that at 300

Some weird centimeters you have there.

If I simplify the issue, by only taking cartridges in OP (and hunting bullets). The flattest 270 has 4.5cm drop at 200, and rainbowiest (is that a word...) 6.5x55 drops 9.3cm.

At 300 the figures are 24.2cm and 48.3cm.

 

[rem284]

I shoot a 270 most week days. I also shoot a 6.5-284 & a 6.5×47. I prefer the 6.5-284 because the bullet bucks the wind better, I can see the strike better than the 270. The 6.5-284 has more range the the 6.5x47 and more accuracy than the 270 at distance.

The 6.5-284 is as close to the 6.5prc. However I would check how much it will be to feed compareed to the 270 if you have to use factory ammo. I recently seen a box of 6.5prc non-lead ammo advertised for £99.00

 

[foxinmad]

Yeah reload for the old man’s 6.5x55 currently


Thought about it. Think I’d just buy an action and have a smith put it into a PSE with a new barrel if I went down that route. The magnum actions are hard to come by for the PRC which is a pain

Speak to Gary at @BE Precision he will sort you out with advice and actions.

 

[Rafter]

As always, speed thrills - but accuracy does the killing

 

[ChesterP]

Shot placement trumps "flat shooting" every time as no-matter what cal you're thinking about, there's really no such thing as "flat shooting" once out beyond 300 yds or more. I'd suggest saving your money, take advantage of the 6.5 bullet choice and learn to home load to up the performance from your 6.5 x 55 which can take higher pressures than much of the factory ammo is loaded to. If it's good enough for those taking deer out past 500 yds across New Zaland's steep sided valleys where that's a pretty realistic range many are shot out there, it's more than good enough for the UK. Even the CM retains more than enough energy to bang flop a deer at 300 to 400 yds, but once out at those distances, the HILAR shot maybe the most reliable bullet placement and offers a large enough killing area to make moa accuracy enough for the job. I've shot into under 10 inches at 1000yds with a factory CM and no doubt might expect similar with other 6.5's using high BC bullets.

I'd be more concerned about bullet placement though and bullet selection and learning to shoot consistently accurately and not fretting about any paper advantages of one cal over another. That's become a fanciful topic on many forums when the truth is those shooting to 400 or even 500m on occasions are probably in field conditions might not be capable of 1moa accuracy on target consistently. You ought really to be more concerned on things like knowing your drops, effects of wind and being capable of determining your scope adjustments accurately irrespective of cal to put the bullet consistently into the right area. Personally, I wouldn't shoot deer atthose ranges when for the most part, in the UK, you ought to be able to stalk in closer, albeit hill shooting may on occasion only offer a 300 to 400 yd beastie. That demands accuracy.

The advantages of a 6.5 as the OP suggests is that it's a lovey forgiving cal to shoot in all flavours. The differences between them are real world marginal for hunting. Target shooters will gravitate towards the ever popular 6.5PRC because of its MV advantages with long for cal high BC target bullets offering improved ballistic performance but for hunting, I wonder what the factory ammo availability is compared with CM or 6.5 x55? Then there's the cost of re-barrelling. Push any 6.5 hot and you're going to be looking at more frequent re-barrelling than say a .308.

In your shoes? I'd keep what I have and home load to benefit from the advantages of the powder column and pressures you can load the x 55 to.

 

[Bowland blades]

All 6.5mm bullets are equal weight for weight ! The defences are can your case carry enough powder ? Enough powder to do your job ? enough bullet to do your job? Your all good . If you shoot to say 300 yards a Barnes tTSX 100 grain will bust through a Big Red Stag with the 6.5 creed, 260 , 6.5 55 etc etc . If you are going to shoot big Grizzly bear , Lions and other dangerous game - get something bigger eh?
Oh if you are competent and have the right conditions that 100 grain tTSX wont act much different ( 50%) might not go clean through if you strike bone

 

[UTGrad]

I shoot a lot of different cartridges and for deer, the 6.5 Creedmoor is just about perfect.

I shoot weekly at the range out to 1K. The 6.5 Creedmoor has a good barrel life of about 2500 rounds, allowing for plenty of practice without concern of burning up the throat.

Every deer I’ve shot with the 6.5 Creedmoor has been recovered, with many dropping within a few steps of impact.

The recoil of the 6.5 Creedmoor is lighter than a 308 and just a little bit more than a 243. A light recoiling rifle is easier to shoot IMO, and much more pleasant to practice with.

The 6.5 Creedmoor is an excellent cartridge choice for deer sized game and even larger with precise shot placement.

 

[grizzpup]

I've shot about 2000 rds through my mauser 6.5x55 and it's brilliant. Soft shooting and flat enough for me to have confidence on all deer out to 250-300m
Still decent on the range. Not shot a creedmoor but doubt it will differ much. Availability of both factory ammo types is good at my dealer

 

[Bordenhunter]

Tbh I don’t think you can go wrong with any 6.5 they are an amazing all around calibre I have however just changed from a 6.5 to a 7mm

 

[Scipio]

All 6.5mm bullets are equal weight for weight ! The defences are can your case carry enough powder ? Enough powder to do your job ? enough bullet to do your job? Your all good . If you shoot to say 300 yards a Barnes tTSX 100 grain will bust through a Big Red Stag with the 6.5 creed, 260 , 6.5 55 etc etc . If you are going to shoot big Grizzly bear , Lions and other dangerous game - get something bigger eh?
Oh if you are competent and have the right conditions that 100 grain tTSX wont act much different ( 50%) might not go clean through if you strike bone

Hello mate, yep, and another point as to using the 100 grn mono bullet in the 6,5 for deer instead of the 120s grns in lead, (which many people probably used to use for deer, when using a 6,5), is the speed bump.
Suddenly the 6.5s in cartridges, like the 6.5x55 or 6.5x57 or the creed, can shoot deer bullets at speeds previously achieved by the larger 30-06 derived cartridges, such as the 270 and 25-06. In turn those cartridges can almost push 100 grn bullets into magnum territory, speed wise. At least if you reload, or have the possibility of having someone reload for you.
So even for someone who believes in the speed kills principle, some of the smaller cartridges might these days do the sort of job that the 270 and 25-06 did. If that is what you want, of course.

Tbh I don’t think you can go wrong with any 6.5 they are an amazing all around calibre I have however just changed from a 6.5 to a 7mm

why if i may ask?