The future is electric

[Oly]

How do you charge your EV if you have no driveway, run a cable out the front door and across the pavement to your car ?

At present many in cities (a lot in London with the congestion charges) are in the same situation as you. You'd have to find a public charger and pay to charge it every time you needed fuel...same as an ICE vehicle but a LOT cheaper £/mile.

It is worth noting though that there are free chargers around too. Whenever we go to Aldi we get to charge for free whilst using the shop.

There are public bollard and lamp post chargers developed though, so it is possible they may be an option in the future.

 

[Oly]

Oly, keep it up man, I'm with you 100% of the way - and thanks for taking the **** from the usual suspects - it's usually me who gets it

Cheers

Bruce

It's not that I don't even still have an ICE vehicle too, it's just I hate the misinformation trolled out there (like the tobacco industry did years ago) and then reposted by others who haven't checked the facts.

Yes, it's new technology, but it's nothing to be afraid of, and it's actually pretty amazing.

 

[User00035]

It's the usual story. People who think they're smarter and more virtuous than everyone else assume the authority to dictate to the rest of us.
Whatever the problem under discussion, no satisfactory answers have ever been found that way. Unfortunately, once again, this attitude is rife within the climate change debate at every level, from supranational quangos, professional celebrity eco warriors, governments and our own civil service, right down to the bottom feeders on social media. There is only one answer and anyone who questions it or even part of it, identifies fatal flaws or asks inconvenient questions that are off-limits or in any way deviates from the "settled" view is either stupid or selfish and needs to shut up and get with the programme.
And so once again as a society we'll end up yoked to a horse designed by a committee, malformed, crippled and utterly unfit for purpose.

 

[Oly]

It's the usual story. People who think they're smarter and more virtuous than everyone else assume the authority to dictate to the rest of us.

Not smarter, just evidenced.

By all means, make a valid argument backed up by evidence, but yes, expect to get a curt response if you slate a good technology without any evidence.

 

[mealiejimmy]

Oly, just ignore Finch - his "issues" are far more "metaphysical" than practical.
Let him spend his time navel gazing, while we get on with trying to explain to people with more open minds why evs are not the devil incarnate


Cheers

Bruce

 

[Bavarianbrit]

When the wind is not blowing and the sun is not shining and all drivers are C-19 home office warriors they can just get on their must have Pelotons and help the grid instead of working, which seems to me what is happening now, just try to call and get an answer from multitudinous service phone lines.

 

[Lancaster]

Where's your evidence that the grid won't cope?

Why should we forget off peak electric? The vast majority of useage is still daylight industry use.

We have loads of wind, and shed loads more to be delivered. Yes there's less windy areas, but that's where new storage tech comes in...so liquid air storage, iron air batteries and V2G. But we're a long way off that yet, so lots of time to deliver in time.

Climate emission killer: construction begins on world’s biggest liquid air battery

Exclusive: project will store renewable energy and reduce climate-heating emissions

amp.theguardian.com

New 'iron-air' battery stores electricity from renewables for days

The battery will help tackle climate change by reducing the need for fossil fuel power plants, according to technology startup Form Energy, from Massachusetts, US.

www.dailymail.co.uk

It's not the grid, in terms of distribution, but more about generating capacity.

We already can't produce enough to meet demand, hence why we import from France, Belgium, The Netherlands, Ireland, and more recently, Norway.

Between now and 2030, 6 Nuclear plants are going off line, with only two at Hinckley C being built.

Developing and building effective storage facilities is going to have to get moving PDQ to even out supply and demand.

Add to this the fact that new build houses will no longer have gas boilers fitted, so unless the developers are going to stick PVP on every roof, the best case scenario is a significant rise in demand caused by the installation of GSHP, or a much larger rise if houses rely on electricity for cooking and heating.

Solutions are being put forward, ie Smart Charging, you plug the car in, but it doesn't charge until the grid determines that there is enough spare capacity to charge the battery, or V2G, which really doesn't appeal.

You plug the car in and the grid takes power from the battery if it needs it and then tops it up after supply can meet demand.
Yes, the owner gets paid for the amount that has been taken, but surely the number of charge and discharge cycles will have an impact on the longevity of the battery?

 

[Sharpie]

Current status of the grid just now, from Gridwatch, about 18:00:

Everything is nearly maxed out, we're burning coal, even running open cycle gas turbines (which is desperate), taking everything that we can get from the interconnectors, hydro and pumped storage are flat out.

Gridcarbon is reporting 287gCO2/kWh.

And I expect that a lot of industry has been told to scale back their demand, to help keep the lights on.

What would we do without nuclear, well we'll soon find out in a year or two's time, when there won't be much left.

Not much wind is blowing.

And it isn't particularly cold yet. It has only just started. BTW it looked even more precarious a little earlier.

Stock up on candles and paraffin lamps, your log pile, fill your oil tanks, install a transfer switch and generator, etc. etc. And try to keep your EV charged, overnight, on your driveway.

 

[Lancaster]

Current status of the grid just now, from Gridwatch, about 18:00:

Everything is nearly maxed out, we're burning coal, even running open cycle gas turbines (which is desperate), taking everything that we can get from the interconnectors, hydro and pumped storage are flat out.

Gridcarbon is reporting 287gCO2/kWh.

And I expect that a lot of industry has been told to scale back their demand, to help keep the lights on.

What would we do without nuclear, well we'll soon find out in a year or two's time, when there won't be much left.

Not much wind is blowing.

And it isn't particularly cold yet. It has only just started. BTW it looked even more precarious a little earlier.

Stock up on candles and paraffin lamps, your log pile, fill your oil tanks, install a transfer switch and generator, etc. etc. And try to keep your EV charged, overnight, on your driveway.



View attachment 232881

View attachment 232882

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Hell's teeth, that isn't good......

 

[Oly]

It's not the grid, in terms of distribution, but more about generating capacity.

The reality is, the grid is hugely complex. All we laymen can go off is what has happened in the past, present and immediate future plans.

The fact is that people have been worried about blackouts since the 70's as more and more electrical demand has been added...but they haven't materialised.

Grid diversity has happened to add more capacity, which is essentially V2G on a smaller scale, and it works.

We have been pulling electric from the continent for decades, it works, following the global marketplace rules as everything else now bought and sold.

Yes UK nukes are coming to an end, but they only offer 16% of present energy use. We are rolling out more renewables, but we've also now also committed to new micro nukes

Rolls-Royce gets funding to develop mini nuclear reactors

Private investors and the UK government will help fund the firm's development of small nuclear reactors.

www.bbc.co.uk

The long and short of it is its a highly complex situation with an entire industry working on tackling the issue. Its not really for consumers to worry about the grid, its bigger than us. The industry is fully aware of the future demands and have served us well with no loss of power due to shortage for the last 50 years.

 

[Oly]

Current status of the grid just now, from Gridwatch, about 18:00:

Everything is nearly maxed out, we're burning coal, even running open cycle gas turbines (which is desperate), taking everything that we can get from the interconnectors, hydro and pumped storage are flat out.

To be honest it's been like that since Brexit. But the lights are still on. The fact that the French (EDF) are playing silly beggars with our nukes (a large proportion are offline due to "maintenance") and increased tariffs on the French interconnector (plus the fire)...plus then the increased gas prices means traditional pathways aren't being used efficiently stressing the grid and making it particularly dirty.

 

[Oly]

The year before the craziness started...I was being paid to charge my car and batteries!

Low demand for power causes problems for National Grid

Energy system operator says lower usage during lockdown could put network under stress

www.theguardian.com

 

[Lancaster]

The reality is, the grid is hugely complex. All we laymen can go off is what has happened in the past, present and immediate future plans.

The fact is that people have been worried about blackouts since the 70's as more and more electrical demand has been added...but they haven't materialised.

Grid diversity has happened to add more capacity, which is essentially V2G on a smaller scale, and it works.

We have been pulling electric from the continent for decades, it works, following the global marketplace rules as everything else now bought and sold.

Yes UK nukes are coming to an end, but they only offer 16% of present energy use. We are rolling out more renewables, but we've also now also committed to new micro nukes

Rolls-Royce gets funding to develop mini nuclear reactors

Private investors and the UK government will help fund the firm's development of small nuclear reactors.

www.bbc.co.uk

The long and short of it is its a highly complex situation with an entire industry working on tackling the issue. Its not really for consumers to worry about the grid, its bigger than us. The industry is fully aware of the future demands and have served us well with no loss of power due to shortage for the last 50 years.

That's simply not true, since 2010 consumption has fallen by around 15%, 9% drop in consumer consumption and 15% of industrial use, generating capacity fell by 18% over the same period.

Have a look at Dukes 2021.Dukes 2021 Chapter 5

 

[Oly]

That's simply not true, since 2010 consumption has fallen by around 15%, 9% drop in consumer consumption and 15% of industrial use, generating capacity fell by 18% over the same period.

Have a look at Dukes 2021.Dukes 2021 Chapter 5

Apologies, you are correct. I meant to say that there was a perception that extra electrical demand would be added...growing population, more electrical goods etc. In reality we did have more people, microwaves, dishwashers etc, but the lights stayed on.

As mentioned, it is clearly highly complex, and the grid management industry hasn't let us down for half a century. There may have to be big changes in the way we generate and, I suspect mostly, store power, but I wouldn't let it drive my consumer choices to reduce fossil fuel use.

 

[tusker]

Bloody hell, so much tech going on my head is frazzled. So I just use my eyes. There are 2 brand new Fuel (petrol and diesel) stations being built within 1 mile of each other in Billingshurst. go figure.
Tusker

 

[Lancaster]

Apologies, you are correct. I meant to say that there was a perception that extra electrical demand would be added...growing population, more electrical goods etc. In reality we did have more people, microwaves, dishwashers etc, but the lights stayed on.

As mentioned, it is clearly highly complex, and the grid management industry hasn't let us down for half a century. There may have to be big changes in the way we generate and, I suspect mostly, store power, but I wouldn't let it drive my consumer choices to reduce fossil fuel use.

No problem.
When we next have a change of vehicles I would happily buy an EV for my other half whose transport needs are very different from mine, but I am mindful that, going forward, there are a lot of technical issues to address by the time the entire population of the UK has no choice but to buy a none ICE car.

I sincerely hope that the move away from ICE and domestic gas boilers doesn't have the negative impact that it could have on the UK's ability to keep the lights on.
ATVB

 

[Sharpie]

To be honest it's been like that since Brexit. But the lights are still on. The fact that the French (EDF) are playing silly beggars with our nukes (a large proportion are offline due to "maintenance") and increased tariffs on the French interconnector (plus the fire)...plus then the increased gas prices means traditional pathways aren't being used efficiently stressing the grid and making it particularly dirty.

Actually I don't think that EDF are gaming anything. They have a maintenance program worked out for good reasons, years in advance, and communicated. They make their money by selling their electricity. It is not in their interests to not do so.

Power station daily status

Quite how EDF came to own all our operating nuclear reactors is another interesting piece of history, politics, and economics.

Quite who will be responsible for the decommissioning costs, I'm not too sure.

I don't think that Brexit has anything to do with it.

But then there are "unplanned outages", for example half of Hartlepool is unexpectedly broken down at the moment, a problem with the steam turbine. And the other half is down for planned maintenance. The AGRs are all very old now, all beyond initial design life, and extended since, but that can't go on forever.

Decommissioning agreement reached on advanced gas cooled reactor (AGR) nuclear power stations

EDF have their own problems with their ageing French reactors (upon which they are very dependent), and poor performance at developing their EPR, currently being built at Hinkley Point, maybe to be commissioned by 2026.

They have not covered themselves in glory with the delays to the ones being built in Olkiluoto in Finland and Flamanville in France, delayed until at least 2022 and 2023. Together with some scandals, and nearly an abandonment of the project, which is only sustained by French government subsidies (too big to fail ?), making little business sense. Now talking about a future redesign

EPR (nuclear reactor) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

There have been two EPRs operating in China since 2019, but the story behind that is another thing.

"The lights are still on" argument isn't even worthy of crass political blustering. Everything will be done to try to keep domestic consumers supplied, and on price capped contracts (for which I am very grateful to have stuck with my standard variable tariffs from big six suppliers,) but fundamentally that needs generating capacity. And a functioning resilient distribution network. Should the lights go off in a large scale way, for a significant period , our thin veneer of civilisation would very soon break down. I don't think that recent generations would have any concept of how to struggle through rolling blackouts, as I did in my youth through the Winter of Discontent etc. Nor cope with blackouts caused by predictable weather and poorly maintained under-invested networks.

As for how industrial and commercial users might survive such a crunch, well I would not know about that.

Regarding the CO2 emissions from what is actually happening, then Real Time British Electricity Fuel Mix gives a more detailed picture.

 

[Sharpie]

Yes UK nukes are coming to an end, but they only offer 16% of present energy use. We are rolling out more renewables, but we've also now also committed to new micro nukes

Rolls-Royce gets funding to develop mini nuclear reactors

Private investors and the UK government will help fund the firm's development of small nuclear reactors.

www.bbc.co.uk

The Rolls Royce branded modular reactors are just a design study at the moment. That has managed to attract some private investment, now that our Government has chipped in a similar amount.

There is no "commitment" to them. And they are by no means "micro nukes". More like the size of a football stadium. If any are ever built they will probably be on existing reactor sites in the UK. Or in other countries that want them. A long long way to go before then. AFAIK Rolls Royce have only ever built (to print from Bechtel) small submarine reactors running on weapons grade uranium. The main design input will come from elsewhere.

We (British Nuclear Fuels Ltd.) used to own a serious reactor company, Westinghouse, but that was sold off long ago. Westinghouse Electric Company - Wikipedia

 

[Oly]

Bloody hell, so much tech going on my head is frazzled. So I just use my eyes. There are 2 brand new Fuel (petrol and diesel) stations being built within 1 mile of each other in Billingshurst. go figure.
Tusker

You already have 3 EV chargers though, and a good number of rapids not far away...and hundreds of plug sockets in the surrounding houses!

 

[Lancaster]

@Sharpie

Thanks for the detailed responses, much appreciated!