Thermal or night vision

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6MM-AI

Active Member
Evening,

after some advise I’m just sorting budget for next year and I’m wondering on what scope to go for?

I’ve had and used longbow and I think it's up there but with the company in money trouble I don’t want any hassle.
ive also used the pulsar trail xp50 what I didn’t get on with...

So what do you recommend thermal or night vision and what one?
Cheers.
 
I got misted in the other night just when the Chicken raider appeared right where/time the landowner said it would. Clear as a bell through the Helion spotter, but couldn`t see anything through the NV.
I should have taken the Thermion.
 
Was out last night using gen 3 add on , bunnies at 140 yards to shoot no problem and spotting them with the thermal also great even though it was a bit misty. It’s my mates gear and he reckons both suffer in certain conditions but from my limited experience I would say thermal spotter and digital or tubed night vision for shooting
 
I dont think there are any new Drone Pro ( ENV ) coming into the uk at the moment and not looking likely in the immediate future
 
BLUEROLL said:
I got misted in the other night just when the Chicken raider appeared right where/time the landowner said it would. Clear as a bell through the Helion spotter, but couldn`t see anything through the NV.
I should have taken the Thermion.
Click to expand...
Hi Blueroll - What NV unit were you using - Cheers Andy
 
Digital Nightvision is more flexible than thermal ,

thermal is pretty much limited in heavy cover scenario , ideal for long open fields etc but lots of mistakes can be caused by the use of thermal scopes in areas of heavy cover and lack of experience with it.

Thermal spotter and Digital NV will work alongside each other and will provide everything you need in regards to it.

The price of the Thermion for instance is £4k , for that you can get a a good thermal spotter like the Helion XQ38F and also buy even the top of the range Pulsar product.

You will be advised on other NV products other than the Pulsar units, do you your research there is plenty to choose from, but all of them have to work alongside an IR so budget that into the equation .

Now I use the Thermal XQ38F alongside the Pulsar Ultra N455 and together they work perfect, there is plenty will advise you on other products as I said.

I am always free for any genuine advice your always welcome.
 
The past couple of years Ive used thermal spotter and NV sight with a decent ir torch (pulsar axion, ultra N455 wicked lights combo currently). Been very happy with that and taken a fair few foxes. I have been getting a bit frustrated with misty evenings though, as its game over with the NV even though the thermal spotter can pick up still. Looking to go for the Pulsar Thermion XQ50, which for me seems to tick the boxes performance and price wise. plus you don’t have to shell out on a decent IR torch to get the best out of them.
 
Tulloch said:
Digital Nightvision is more flexible than thermal ,

thermal is pretty much limited in heavy cover scenario , ideal for long open fields etc but lots of mistakes can be caused by the use of thermal scopes in areas of heavy cover and lack of experience with it.

Thermal spotter and Digital NV will work alongside each other and will provide everything you need in regards to it.

The price of the Thermion for instance is £4k , for that you can get a a good thermal spotter like the Helion XQ38F and also buy even the top of the range Pulsar product.

You will be advised on other NV products other than the Pulsar units, do you your research there is plenty to choose from, but all of them have to work alongside an IR so budget that into the equation .

Now I use the Thermal XQ38F alongside the Pulsar Ultra N455 and together they work perfect, there is plenty will advise you on other products as I said.

I am always free for any genuine advice your always welcome.
Click to expand...
Couldn't the same problems be attributed to NV in heavy cover, eg bounce back of IR illumination causing whiteout?
 
It can tbh ,i have a solaris srx on my pard nv007 and in close woodland turned the srs down to low power as then its fine close up ,but on open fields the srx is a gamechanger .
And yes in rain and mist its a pain but as Tulloch states the thermal spotter sees things in the trees that the nv cant so i would be weary of a pure thermal scope tempting shots that won,t connect through brash and branches .
 
Freeforester said:
Couldn't the same problems be attributed to NV in heavy cover, eg bounce back of IR illumination causing whiteout?
Click to expand...
Yes it can but with NV you cannot see what you cant shoot with thermal however there is a chance of seeing but not neccessarily be able to shoot.

Thermal bleeds over the cover in front of the target . I will do a video this week to show you what I mean, nightvision does not. Nighvision doesn't lure you into a false sense of security thermal can.

Its one of my bug bates when it comes to the marketing of these products, I estimated over the years I have reviewed and tested a phenomenal amount of products mainly Night Vision and Thermal and although the tech has got better it still is not 100% reliable.

Digital NV helps put shot doubt in your mind, not seeing back stops or even the target puts doubt in the shooters mind and in return they think about the shot more, Thermal does the opposite, the target becomes the shooters focus and in many cases in fact I would hazard a guess at 80% of the cases, the shooter is not aware of the back stop and the surrounding terrain either in front or around the target but the fact you can still see the target makes the shooter more likely to take the shot.

There has been a number of high profile accidents caused by the use of thermal scopes. Its all worth thinking about.

There is still a lack of understanding in regards to the technology within our community and yes it is getting better but at the User level its still a worry.
 
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I agree with Tulloch - I think we must work on similar type of ground in Scotland ie rough terrain with plenty of sheep, deer,badgers,stirks etc and we use the thermal spotter to great effect but wouldn't be happy to shoot with some situations without definite ID which you get with NV plus it helps with back stops we have field trialled several NV systems and like Tulloch are happy to give genuine feedback
 
Thermal to spot and Drone for the Shot, is my motto. i have a Thermal rifle scope, but it rarely gets used because i have to be 100% about id, which you can't be with thermal.
 
Definitely good points made about safe backdrops, shot safety always has to be top of the list of priorities. of course being extremely familiar with your ground helps but theres always the unexpected - a case in point a few weeks ago for me when I was sitting in a high seat waiting for a fox. Scanning the ground with the thermal spotter, I picked up a heat source in the grass (a rabbit) and checked it through the nv scope. I could pick up a bit of eye shine and a clear head. I could easily have taken a safe shot if I had wanted, but didn’t as I was after Charlie, Putting the rifle down and scanning the ground again, 20yds behind the rabbit just inside the tree line were two human figures, 2 gentlemen well off the footpath, out for an evenings personal enjoyment as it turns out, but that’s another story! The point being that I couldnt see them with the NV as they were masked by the tree line, there was plenty of backstop shooting down into the ground but in no way a safe shot.
100% agree that there are pros and cons of each system, and a solid argument in covering the bases with one of each type, but theres no failsafe other than your own common sense.
 
Certainly for the time being it has to be a thermal spotter and digital or tubed NV. Thermal still hasn't reached the stage of guaranteeing 100% identification under all situations and circumstances.
 
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A thermal rifle scope has many benefits over night vision , you do get positive ID with night vision though.

Thermal huge field of view, long detection range and the fastest target acquisition, no extra bulk IR torch to be added, they are also safe by the fact you can see livestock and people in the background, through hedges, very easily when you get the odd random out at night, NV its just too narrow to pick up a lot of the time..

I use thermal scopes for rats, rabbits, foxes... shooting into hedges, woodland were NV gives bounce back. If I'm shooting on stubbles, long grass there is no equal on rabbits, its so quick to get a shot without scanning over every time, waiting on foxes at bait points your on them rapid quick also..you can track so easy..

I use one on most of my rifles, Apex, Trail and Thermions.... for pure pest control they are lethal. In fact I can happily shoot rabbits out to 150+ yds with a HMR and my thermal scope, which I do a lot..(detect 400-450yds)

Night vision is brilliant and will always be the most popular due to the price there at and the positive identification from the visual image they give , but thermal like I say has huge benefits, thousands of thermal rifle scopes have been sold in the UK never mind the rest of the world, so there is a huge demand, for a reason....
 
For almost 4 years now I have been spotting with thermal and shooting with thermal but keep an NV spotter (currently a PARD008 with a Sirius XTL) handy for confirming thermal targets I can't positively identify - but to be frank, it's rarely used.
If you both spot and shoot with thermal regularly, your level of competence in quarry recognition improves until you can, in almost all cases, positively identify the quarry.
My issue with spotting with thermal and shooting with NV is that they present 2 completely different sight pictures, and switching back and forth from one to the other hinders achieving the level of competence needed to safely shoot with the thermal.
On the odd occasions I go back to shooting with NV such as the Digex, PARD008 or an 007 add-on, I find the lack of contrast between the target and the background really frustrating compared to the much higher contrast seen in the thermal image.

Cheers

Bruce
 
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