Thermal vs night vision

[JTO]

I went from Digisight, with IR, to thermal because of the glare from nearby vegetation, and chose the Thermion XM50 because of the base mag of 5X.
About the only ID mistake you could possibly make is thinking the farmer's Collie might be a fox. The Collie tail might show up more than a fox's insulated brush!

 

[User00036]

I spend a to of time monitoring the wildlife on the farm. With thermal spotter, I can tell the difference between a roe & a muntjac, but not CWD & roe or red deer. Likewise between a buck & a doe unless the buck is in velvet, then it shows in the thermal. Likewise between a rabbit & hare unless they are moving. NV for ID, thermal for scanning.

 

[3.5mag]

I'd use a thermion out to about 100m but honestly I'd take a pulsar c50 over a thermion scope not worth the price tag in my opinion

I don't think the Vixen I got last night at a Lasered 180yds with my Thermion2 XQ50 would agree. I could see and ID her clearly and shot her cleanly on a base mag of 3.5 since I had to get onto her quickly with no messing about. As I've claimed previously, the XQ50-2 is capable out to 200yds+. The fox was spotted with my Gryphon GQ35LRF @ a base mag of 2x with no doubt about ID.

 

[SussexSteve]

It really does come down to if you believe the extra £2-3000 for a thermal scope over a decent NV set up is worth a few extra foxes a year. I had 4 thermal scopes over the last 6 years or so as I shot 5/6 nights a week, sometimes going through the night to daybreak. Now I tend to shoot a couple of hours after time with my deer rifle so the Pulsar C50 does the job fine. Even the best scope doesn't offer 100% ID but then you just have to wait for the heat source to move. A fox laid in long grass can soon turn into 2 rabbits, a hare or even a deer! No such problem with NV

 

[SussexSteve]

I don't think the Vixen I got last night at a Lasered 180yds with my Thermion2 XQ50 would agree. I could see and ID her clearly and shot her cleanly on a base mag of 3.5 since I had to get onto her quickly with no messing about. As I've claimed previously, the XQ50-2 is capable out to 200yds+. The fox was spotted with my Gryphon GQ35LRF @ a base mag of 2x with no doubt about ID.

I'm sure you can but at what mag is it a blurry blob? I like to be precise with my shots and all the pulsars I used didn't offer a high enough base magnification to achieve that especially at 250m upwards

 

[3.5mag]

I'm sure you can but at what mag is it a blurry blob? I like to be precise with my shots and all the pulsars I used didn't offer a high enough base magnification to achieve that

Depending upon the conditions of the night, I will happily go up to 6x mag on the pre-set settings, using the user setting on low contrast I've taken it upto max mag of 14x and still had the identifiable profile of the fox including tail . Pulsar presets such as forest & ident do tend to be high in contrast as a default which does blur the outline above a certain mag which is why it pays to play with the brightness & contrast depending upon conditions as with most thermals.
I'm not saying I can always ID immediately every time, sometimes you obviously leave the shot or await your opportunity of a firm ID .
I do also now have a C50 on my .243 for occasional fox duty, such as breezy nights & larger permissions.
It's good, but I prefer thermal

 

[mealiejimmy]

There is no universal right or wrong to Thermal V Night Vision
People tend to gravitate towards what they prefer and what they can afford.
I also don't think there is much difference in the effectiveness of NV and thermal when used by people who are experienced in the use of each technology.
My personal preference is for thermal (spotting and shooting) and I now find that when I use NV, I find it a PITA because the contrast in the image is so low compared to thermal and because of glare from vegetation.
However, that's my personal choice and I know and accept that many prefer the more detailed image produced by NV
Having said that, with enough experience and the right kit, fox size targets can be positively identified and safely shot out the same distances as NV.

Cheers

Bruce

 

[SussexSteve]

Within reasonable foxing distances Bruce Id agree

 

[One on top of two]

Depending upon the conditions of the night, I will happily go up to 6x mag on the pre-set settings, using the user setting on low contrast I've taken it upto max mag of 14x and still had the identifiable profile of the fox including tail . Pulsar presets such as forest & ident do tend to be high in contrast as a default which does blur the outline above a certain mag which is why it pays to play with the brightness & contrast depending upon conditions as with most thermals.
I'm not saying I can always ID immediately every time, sometimes you obviously leave the shot or await your opportunity of a firm ID .
I do also now have a C50 on my .243 for occasional fox duty, such as breezy nights & larger permissions.
It's good, but I prefer thermal

I have a similar setup , I use a Thermion 2 xp50 Pro/ LRF currently sat on my .233 and I also have a pulsar C50 sat on a .308 these are sat in Innomounts and can be all swaped about between.22LR /.223/.6.5 cm/.308 in 30 secs and all zeroed with there corresponding profile . It’s just absolutely no hassle at all .
I don’t have issues shooting at 300m with either option

I don’t like high base mags , most of my fox shooting is either right next to or right in the middle of hundreds of sheep/lambs , so I personally would struggle trying to find my target in amongst that lot with the narrow FOV that the higher magnification would give me . Which was one of the many reasons I got rid of my old drone x10 ( but that’s another story )
I’m also a big fan of using decent mounts and a traditional rifle scope design .
But I did shoot for a quite a long time using my first spotter ( axion Key ) and a NV scope for a while but also felt it a little awkward sometimes , anyway when the new Thermion 2 pros came out last month with the LRF dumped on top I knew instantly I was having one , and I love it .
I can sit with my rifle on a tripod and looking / scanning over my sheep . I can identify , accurately range and nail the bugger out to 300m all without taking my cheek off the stock .
I can still shoot in mist / fog / rain /snow / in reduced ranges maybe but situations when NV would just fail.
I don’t have to worry about IR , sometimes I can unsettle the sheep especially when using IR lasers .
Well these are just a couple of reasons I bought what I have , I still very much enjoy shooting with NV and my C50 is just brilliant but I don’t think they can be compared really , there just two very handy tools I’m grateful to have at my disposal.
But ….
I will still and will continue all the while I have a hole in my arse . Shoot with just a rifle , red lamp and hand call whenever I can get away with it .

 

[User00053]

Bottom line, if not sure no shot which has cost me a few to be fair when laying quite resting or playing “ you cannot see me” you know it is but not 101% hand on heart certain, when using above average thermal.
On those odd encounters per year a decent tubed nv would have resulted in a shot, but for me thermal on balance a far better tool for any vermin at night.
To add rarely shoot past 250 yards, unless needs must and closer within reason the better.

 

[One on top of two]

Bottom line is every shooter out at night foxing should also have a decent lamp to hand if needed .
I have a decent lamp at my feet when shooting or clipped onto tripod , if there’s an instance where I can’t 100% positively ID my target with either NV or Thermal I will just flash my torch 20ft above or to the side of it and pick up some eye shine , that will always give you a perfect ID every time . It makes no odds to me if it runs off as I was not going to pull the trigger anyway through lack of Identification. , however if it does decide to hang around for a min longer we can have a completely different night .

 

[User00053]

Bottom line is every shooter out at night foxing should also have a decent lamp to hand if needed .
I have a decent lamp at my feet when shooting or clipped onto tripod , if there’s an instance where I can’t 100% positively ID my target with either NV or Thermal I will just flash my torch 20ft above or to the side of it and pick up some eye shine , that will always give you a perfect ID every time . It makes no odds to me if it runs off as I was not going to pull the trigger anyway through lack of Identification. , however if it does decide to hang around for a min longer we can have a completely different night .

Same with us, the lamp does not lie, used examples to respond to thermal vs night vision as op.

 

[One on top of two]

Too be brutally honest yes I think my Thermion pro is great , it does everything I have so-far asked of it BUT ….
I do love using nice NV over my sheep and Horses on those warm summer nights and have done for many years .
And that C50 is just flipping brilliant with the right IR .I love using it.

 

[User00053]

Too be brutally honest yes I think my Thermion pro is great , it does everything I have so-far asked of it BUT ….
I do love using nice NV over my sheep and Horses on those warm summer nights and have done for many years .
And that C50 is just flipping brilliant with the right IR .

have same ( for me ) “ problem” keep wanting to and do still use longbow, even though thermal superior in so many ways, just love shooting daft cubs with it, or culling hares when needed, and the bow tube not great now,

 

[20ppc]

Same with us, the lamp does not lie, used examples to respond to thermal vs night vision as op.

That’s not strictly true; About 16 years ago a fox shooter was charged after shooting a man using binoculars to watch badgers, he was using a lamp and thought the reflection of the binos was a fox, He was charged and luckily for him he was cleared at Aylesbury Crown Court

 

[old keeper]

That’s not strictly true; About 16 years ago a fox shooter was charged after shooting a man using binoculars to watch badgers, he was using a lamp and thought the reflection of the binos was a fox, He was charged and luckily for him he was cleared at Aylesbury Crown Court

The was a similar tragic case down here some years ago when a chap shot his stepson, reflection off glasses. If you shoot near habitation you just can't rely on eyeshine as there's always the possibility of cats or dogs being out and about!

 

[Tazz]

XQ38 Helium for spotting and Pard 008 RF on 223 I think it’s a great combo

 

[One on top of two]

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[One on top of two]

That’s not strictly true; About 16 years ago a fox shooter was charged after shooting a man using binoculars to watch badgers, he was using a lamp and thought the reflection of the binos was a fox, He was charged and luckily for him he was cleared at Aylesbury Crown Court

The was a similar tragic case down here some years ago when a chap shot his stepson, reflection off glasses. If you shoot near habitation you just can't rely on eyeshine as there's always the possibility of cats or dogs being out and about!

Think your both talking about the same incident ?

 

[foxdropper]

Here’s a tale to send a chill up your hoop .
When I was a keeper many moons ago we used to have to fox 4 nights a week on the back of the Subaru .Me shooting and other beat lamping while the head drove .This particulate night we drove into a field and on with the lamp ,pair of eyes far end of the field about 300 yards away .I looked through the scope of the .222 but couldn’t make out anything suffice to say it appeared to be on a dry stone wall .I leant in the cab and asked the driver to get closer .Crept up to within 150 ish and on with lamp .Still no clear definition and the head telling me to shoot it anyway which I refrained from doing so .The head drove right up to it and turns out it was a women bottle feeding a goat kid that had moved closer to the wall wondering what we were doing .The head being of a certain persuasion gave her a right roasting like it was her fault .
Im just glad I never went with the then mentality to shoot at eyes and worry about it later .
He never questioned me after that night .