Thinking of reloading,
- Thread starter Tikkat1x
- Start date
The only guidance I can offer, other than to continue approaching all elements in a controlled and unhurried manner, is to always check that no powder grains remain adhered to the inside of a case when seeking to empty the contents as you’ve obviously done when over-charging with 24grns.
Tapping the case neck down on the bench will not necessarily ensure an empty case, so insert a rolled up and pointy piece of kitchen towel and give it a good wiggle.
K
Tapping the case neck down on the bench will not necessarily ensure an empty case, so insert a rolled up and pointy piece of kitchen towel and give it a good wiggle.
K
If I am correct cases too short will lead to carbon rings in the chamber, not something you want really although they can be removed. Its a bit like cooking...can always add more water but can't take it away, in reloading you can always trim a bit more but can't put it back on 
so best to trim, measure, trim measure, trim 
so best to trim, measure, trim measure, trim 
tim@tcs
Well-Known Member
Better to measure first, you may find that the brass doesn’t flow far at allIf I am correct cases too short will lead to carbon rings in the chamber, not something you want really although they can be removed. Its a bit like cooking...can always add more water but can't take it away, in reloading you can always trim a bit more but can't put it back on
i will disregard all my ^%$£ ups then, and hopefully lesson learned, i must say its a bit of a pain trimming the cases as they all seem different and have to set the trimmer for each one, and i kept catching my thumb nail on the screw that holds the handle on 
other than that im really enjoying it, made 10 today, probably 15 mins for most, took me 2 hours
other than that im really enjoying it, made 10 today, probably 15 mins for most, took me 2 hoursyour going to have to elaborate on that for me mate, me no understand
tim@tcs
Well-Known Member
Ok trimming is because brass stretches and flows under pressure which is why it’s good for cartridge cases, it expands to allow the gas to build up until the bullet leaves the chamber and shrinks back a bit allowing it to be withdrawn from the chamber. If the case is no longer malleable because it’s become work hardened and not annealed again then it is less likely to stretch as far. This can lead to sooty deposits on the neck and in the chamber but is not necessarily going to cause a malfunction.your going to have to elaborate on that for me mate, me no understand
The brass will only stretch so far before it becomes weakened and thin. Some chambers are very tolerant and some are tight. Tight ones may need full length resizing and regular measuring. The oal is important because if you don’t crimp a bullet can become stuck in the rifling and should you unload that round it spills powder in your mechanism. It also can reduce the use of the rifle magazine if too long. Military ammo often is crimped and will often depending upon the chamber tolerance leave less residue when fired. The cases of rimless ammo as opposed to rimmed headspace on the shoulder which means that trimming the neck shouldn’t affect the headspace but may leave deposits in the chamber and on the case.
Consistency is critical in load development but as long as you accept there are tolerances then you should sleep better. Consistent neck tension is more important than a thou or two of case length provided the oal is within your tolerances too!
Yes good point! Totally breezed over that part!
my bad!!i think i will have to read that a dozen times for it to male sense, although i do understand some of it, should i be crimping my rounds?
tim@tcs
Well-Known Member
No just measure them before you trim and accept that there will be small differences between them that don’t really matter much. The round comparators are good but I use a case forming die as a check rather making it a visual pass rather than a measurement the only issue with comparators is some bullets are longer than others
i have been measuring before i trim them, they range from 1.750 - 1.759, but i watched a video yesterday, and the bloke said as long as it wasn't below 1.750 but he also didnt mind if they were up to 1.751.5 and the last picture above thats now 1.573 was 1.750 before i primed it, so im guessing its the primer, but it didnt look like it was protruding, the others are just my mistakes that i didnt know if were within tolerance or not,
The brass undergoes an equal amount of work if not more during full length sizing ,in comparison to the firing cycle .
During the firing cycle , the case is forced forward by the firing pin engaging the shoulders with the shoulders of the chamber . As pressure builds the primer is pushed out and the pressure causes the case to expand and stretch outward and back from the shoulders to the breechface , indoing so the primer is pushed back in . Excessive pressure would cause the primer to flatten before being forced home , resulting in what we know to be flattened primers .
The bullet starts it's journey at around 10K psi , as it does so the increasing pressure expands the neck causing obturation .
As the pressure decreases the brass springs back a little but not fully .
Let's not forget the chamber also expands and springs back .
During full length sizing the die sizes as follows,
Outside diameter - neck .
Body and web - as they are queezed the case will lengthen to the shoulders.
Shoulders - as the die engages the shoulders the brass can only flow in one direction, that being into the neck . This is where a lot of case lengthening occurs , hence , we need to trim .
Neck - inside diameter , setting the internal neck diameter/tension .
Hopefully,I haven't omitted anything , my explanation is for rimless cartridges such as the 223 Rem' .
When we F/L size , we adjust the die to set minimal pushback on the shoulder to minimise the stretching , brass flow and working of the brass . This will help maximise case life . Pushing the shoulder back hard will soon lead to case separation , possibly within a couple of firings .
Hope this helps .
Remember to check trim length after sizing .
Simple test to check primer protrusion , stand the primed case on a piece of glass . If the primer is protruding it will prevent the case head from standing flat .
I've now used up today's allowance of words .
During the firing cycle , the case is forced forward by the firing pin engaging the shoulders with the shoulders of the chamber . As pressure builds the primer is pushed out and the pressure causes the case to expand and stretch outward and back from the shoulders to the breechface , indoing so the primer is pushed back in . Excessive pressure would cause the primer to flatten before being forced home , resulting in what we know to be flattened primers .
The bullet starts it's journey at around 10K psi , as it does so the increasing pressure expands the neck causing obturation .
As the pressure decreases the brass springs back a little but not fully .
Let's not forget the chamber also expands and springs back .
During full length sizing the die sizes as follows,
Outside diameter - neck .
Body and web - as they are queezed the case will lengthen to the shoulders.
Shoulders - as the die engages the shoulders the brass can only flow in one direction, that being into the neck . This is where a lot of case lengthening occurs , hence , we need to trim .
Neck - inside diameter , setting the internal neck diameter/tension .
Hopefully,I haven't omitted anything , my explanation is for rimless cartridges such as the 223 Rem' .
When we F/L size , we adjust the die to set minimal pushback on the shoulder to minimise the stretching , brass flow and working of the brass . This will help maximise case life . Pushing the shoulder back hard will soon lead to case separation , possibly within a couple of firings .
Hope this helps .
Remember to check trim length after sizing .
No need to crimp .
Simple test to check primer protrusion , stand the primed case on a piece of glass . If the primer is protruding it will prevent the case head from standing flat .
I've now used up today's allowance of words .
now thats a good explanation that i can understand, not saying anyone else's arnt, but as a beginner its taking so understanding
it will all sink in eventually though,
Good you are asking questions when uncertain. That is a really good trait, especially when learning and starting out. Well done. Lots of reloaders are on here can help.
Various people have posted about using the powder manufacturer's loads, when in fact you need Gordon's Reloading Tool as I recommended earlier. It would answer your questions on load, COAL etc, telling you what is safe and what is not, as well as how close you are to the limits.
DO NOT use a 4gn overload without checking with Gordon's tool. Putting in 4gn extra can mean the difference between perfectly fine 60,000 PSI and a burster 100,000 psi. You are working with 60K psi, not just 10K unless you are loading for pistols (which your helpful pictures show you are not): all these are serious pressures. In contrast, a 2''' difference in COAL is nothing.
Gordon's Reloading tool is free. See start [Gordons Reloading Tool Community]. No reloader should work without it. Or Quickload which does the same but costs.
Just because a manufacturer shows a maximum of 22.2gn does not mean you can use it in your rifle: you are meant to start with the lightest published load and then work up to the max, checking for over-pressure signs along the way, and if you see any of them, stop immediately and work back a bit. If you had Gordon's tool, you put in the manufacturer's load and then the tool will tell you what that load does in your rifle and save yourself some time.
You have discovered the reason for the advice given earlier, that you need two sets of scales. Beam scales can stick, the slides can be set in error or nudged, or a grain of powder can get just where you do not want it. Either check using a volume measure (which is surprisingly consistent if used properly), or better, check using another scale, especially if you are working near the limits. The beam is perfect for making the load, but use an electronic scale to check either every load, or one in 5 loads. A cheap 0.02gn resolution scale, accurate to 0.1gn, costs as little £14 on Amazon. PM me if you need a link.
Various people have badly advised you to use published loads. Manufacturer's data is sometimes very conservative, sometimes is not, it often does not include the powder - case - bullet combination you want to use, does not take account of YOUR rifle (twist rate, barrel length), or the COAL or seating depth or jump that you are using, but Gordon's tool does the lot. A published load is a good starting point, not the end position.
BTW your seating depth looks too deep.
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i have actually seen this in a video, but it never crossed my mind to check earlier, i will check them all tomorrow
i will get gordons reloading tool now thanks, i do remember you mentioning it, but these last few days have been a blur, seating depth in the one above or the first one i did yesterday,
this it actually becoming a pain in the arris, i thought it was going to be nice and easy
didnt think i was going to end up like johnny balljoined GRT, it tells me to download it so i do, then its just open this, open that, nothings there and what it wants to open with i dont have, im just going round in circles, downloading stuff and finding it or opening it does not come easy to me, is there an app, i can do apps
is there an app, i can do apps
Easy, just tell it the parameters of your rifle, bullet and powder under LOAD DATA pull down. Then on the main screen tell it how many grains you are using.done it
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