Thoughts please

[VSS]

Good, then barring some minutiae we are on the same page, not viewing deer as meat alone, which was my ascertation-and careful, structured management should be adhered to in order to positively effect the quality of the herd.

I think ‘genetics’ is possibly an misnomer, herd quality a more apt term.

Unless it's an enclosed herd, you can pretty much forget about the males. Shoot whatever males you want, whenever you want. There's not much to be gained by being choosy. To improve herd quality, concentrate on weeding out poorer females. That will have a far more lasting positive effect on herd quality than selectively culling males.

 

[shakey jake]

Does a good set of antlers actually mean healthy deer or just a nice wall mount?

 

[VSS]

Does a good set of antlers actually mean healthy deer or just a nice wall mount?

Antler growth does reflect health and nutrition.
Interestingly, I have found it to be influenced by the previous year's nutrition, rather than the current (in my herd, anyway). Presumably because growing antlers draws upon skeletal reserves laid down over the past 12 months, rather than what the deer is eating while the antlers are actually growing.

 

[Tim.243]

So your thesis is just shoot anything, the selective practices of stalkers to promote good genetics is absolute folly? I can’t possibly agree with that.

It’s rather sad IMO that this appears to be the prevailing thought. Just shoot on sight. Too many deer…as much as that’s a giant can of worms is that universally the case, to the degree that a ‘shoot on sight’ approach is adopted by all, especially with roe? I’d accept it with large populations of fallow and muntjac. A very large portion of the UK there really isn’t a deer problem at all. In any event, a dominant roe buck is a good regulator of territorial fraying.

I am part of a small number of people that cull a rather special herd of reds, with some of the best heads in England. They got that way by restraint and selective culling. It would be easy to blatter everything we see with the attitude of ‘better in my freezer’ ‘my neigbour will just have it’ but it isn’t done that way, and the results speak for themselves.

You missed out CWD in you Fallow Muntjac statement so now we are up to 50% of the deer species, Sika will mate with reds
looks like it is crumbling like a deck of cards.

 

[Dickie]

Only you will know the population density in the area you shoot on or manage if they're tripping over each other then shoot it and as many others as you can especially the females when in season.
If the population density is a lot lower then it's down how much you need to pull the trigger.
Talking Roe here as in the picture not any others.

 

[Tim.243]

They tried it before and how did that work out!

 

[JH83]

You missed out CWD in you Fallow Muntjac statement so now we are up to 50% of the deer species, Sika will mate with reds
looks like it is crumbling like a deck of cards.

Not many CWD, munts in my neck of the woods, nor in fact most of the british isles. In fact in most of northern england and a great deal of Scotland, numbers are fairly static. But i take your point that in various parts of S England numbers are pretty crazy, and a shoot on sight approach will be needed.

That being said I fear there’s a rhetoric trotted out by the folks who want to reduce deer densities, for their own insidious agenda- SNP etc that ‘deer numbers are out of control’. Well in most places they aren’t. At all.

If people want to shoot the hat racks, so be it, just admit it- just not under the guise of management, from the mouths of people who want to see sport stalking eradicated. It’s a dangerous rhetoric, and i see a lot of deer shot that shouldn’t be under this justification.

 

[Tim.243]

Not many CWD, munts in my neck of the woods, nor in fact most of the british isles. In fact in most of northern england and a great deal of Scotland, numbers are fairly static. But i take your point that in various parts of S England numbers are pretty crazy, and a shoot on sight approach will be needed.

That being said I fear there’s a rhetoric trotted out by the folks who want to reduce deer densities, for their own insidious agenda- SNP etc that ‘deer numbers are out of control’. Well in most places they aren’t. At all.

If people want to shoot the hat racks, so be it, just admit it- just not under the guise of management, from the mouths of people who want to see sport stalking eradicated. It’s a dangerous rhetoric, and i see a lot of deer shot that shouldn’t be under this justification.

I was talking from the practical side of the fence not the political side which is a shame you brought politics into your camp.