Loler UK
Well-Known Member
Many thanks for your PM Nigel
The time taken to collate this data is admirable & interesting and it's great to see people trying to better interpret it.
Ultimately lead and lead free bullets can do weird and wonderful things, turn on a rib, give up energy quickly and not exit one day and pencil through the next.
A frangible V-max generally behaves very differently (the vast majority of the time) to a bonded bullet such as an accubond, the same can be said of copper a TTSX behaves differently to the more frangible lead free bullets.
I've shot somewhere between 60-80 beasts with lead free and a few 100 with lead, many friends and colleagues have shot well over 1000 each lead free.
In our experience there is a clear correlation with pencilling with some (most) lead free designs, especially when you are lucky/ unlucky enough to enter the chest between ribs without clipping shoulder cartilage / bone or rib bone. Even when bonded bullets do this they still tend to expand reliably in my experience and have recovered quite a few from red and fallow shot at 300m+ (the Nielsen is the one notable exception)
The other correlation is turning in the body, specifically Barnes.
The final thing little mentioned on here is head shooting with lead free. Those that may head shoot frequently in parks will generally opt for a highly frangible light bullet and may not want it to go super fast as reduced recoil can allow you to quickly dispatch several from the herd as quickly as possible. Most people that work in parks are sensible enough to stay off this forum, or at least not comment. There is no doubt that the less frangible lead free bullets have been known to clip the skull and result in a highly mobile injured deer where as a frangible lead bullet would have resulted in a dead deer. 2 people have also told me that they have found the more reliably expanding nielsons can inure other deer in the herd when head shooting with the petals & base ending up in other animals where a frangible lead bullet would have disintegrated into tiny fragments as it clipped the skull.
I think that we will learn allot more about preferences of lead free bullets as more and more people use them. Just like lead their designs will be marmite depending on your application & preference.
This data set is very small, and if you consider averages a few that dropped on the spot would hide the bigger picture of a few doing 100m or more.
One of my best stalking mates is home loading fox 30cal bullets and the first roe he shot slipped between the ribs, did 300m, led up in a hedge and was dispatched with a head shot a short while later. The next 10 have dropped within 3m. These type of runners might only be 1 in 100 but with an SST. As it goes he'd rather have the odd one run than mash up a carcass with SST's! Each to their own.
My hound is voting for solids followed by ttsx
but he's not teh most ethical of stalkers lol
I've taken 46 deer with the Nielson 6.5 120gr at 2900fps (ish), 6 neck shot the other 40 chest from MJK to Fallow and none have made it 30m (yet) with most falling within 5m. Meat damage is minimal akin to that of the bonded lead bullets I used to use. I am yet to puncture the gut despite taking one MJK facing almost strait at me through the chest (quartering ever so slightly)
I stopped using barnes TTSX after the first few animals, they do seem to like to be going fast to expand reliably resulting in massive blood run / bruising and then still pencil through too often for my liking, foxes in particular seem to run and run where even a bonded bullet would see them do 50-80m max in my experience.
For chest shooting UK deer I couldn't recommend the nielson's highly enough and for head shooting park deer or people that want something more frangible Yew tree bullets would be my recommendation the tips break up lovely and they do not need to be pushed too fast. And as soon as they are available in 6.5 (currently 6mm only) I will try the Yew tree out for at least 50 chest shot beasts but is suspect the damage to shoulders may be more than I personally like which will be a bonus to others.
Sadly neither of my recommendations are in factory, this appears to be the biggest problem IMO with lead free, factory choice is limited and may not run well in your rifle or deliver the terminal ballistics you desire
The time taken to collate this data is admirable & interesting and it's great to see people trying to better interpret it.
Ultimately lead and lead free bullets can do weird and wonderful things, turn on a rib, give up energy quickly and not exit one day and pencil through the next.
A frangible V-max generally behaves very differently (the vast majority of the time) to a bonded bullet such as an accubond, the same can be said of copper a TTSX behaves differently to the more frangible lead free bullets.
I've shot somewhere between 60-80 beasts with lead free and a few 100 with lead, many friends and colleagues have shot well over 1000 each lead free.
In our experience there is a clear correlation with pencilling with some (most) lead free designs, especially when you are lucky/ unlucky enough to enter the chest between ribs without clipping shoulder cartilage / bone or rib bone. Even when bonded bullets do this they still tend to expand reliably in my experience and have recovered quite a few from red and fallow shot at 300m+ (the Nielsen is the one notable exception)
The other correlation is turning in the body, specifically Barnes.
The final thing little mentioned on here is head shooting with lead free. Those that may head shoot frequently in parks will generally opt for a highly frangible light bullet and may not want it to go super fast as reduced recoil can allow you to quickly dispatch several from the herd as quickly as possible. Most people that work in parks are sensible enough to stay off this forum, or at least not comment. There is no doubt that the less frangible lead free bullets have been known to clip the skull and result in a highly mobile injured deer where as a frangible lead bullet would have resulted in a dead deer. 2 people have also told me that they have found the more reliably expanding nielsons can inure other deer in the herd when head shooting with the petals & base ending up in other animals where a frangible lead bullet would have disintegrated into tiny fragments as it clipped the skull.
I think that we will learn allot more about preferences of lead free bullets as more and more people use them. Just like lead their designs will be marmite depending on your application & preference.
This data set is very small, and if you consider averages a few that dropped on the spot would hide the bigger picture of a few doing 100m or more.
One of my best stalking mates is home loading fox 30cal bullets and the first roe he shot slipped between the ribs, did 300m, led up in a hedge and was dispatched with a head shot a short while later. The next 10 have dropped within 3m. These type of runners might only be 1 in 100 but with an SST. As it goes he'd rather have the odd one run than mash up a carcass with SST's! Each to their own.
My hound is voting for solids followed by ttsx
but he's not teh most ethical of stalkers lolI've taken 46 deer with the Nielson 6.5 120gr at 2900fps (ish), 6 neck shot the other 40 chest from MJK to Fallow and none have made it 30m (yet) with most falling within 5m. Meat damage is minimal akin to that of the bonded lead bullets I used to use. I am yet to puncture the gut despite taking one MJK facing almost strait at me through the chest (quartering ever so slightly)
I stopped using barnes TTSX after the first few animals, they do seem to like to be going fast to expand reliably resulting in massive blood run / bruising and then still pencil through too often for my liking, foxes in particular seem to run and run where even a bonded bullet would see them do 50-80m max in my experience.
For chest shooting UK deer I couldn't recommend the nielson's highly enough and for head shooting park deer or people that want something more frangible Yew tree bullets would be my recommendation the tips break up lovely and they do not need to be pushed too fast. And as soon as they are available in 6.5 (currently 6mm only) I will try the Yew tree out for at least 50 chest shot beasts but is suspect the damage to shoulders may be more than I personally like which will be a bonus to others.
Sadly neither of my recommendations are in factory, this appears to be the biggest problem IMO with lead free, factory choice is limited and may not run well in your rifle or deliver the terminal ballistics you desire
where you could order bullets from Utah and get them delivered quicker than the RFD could get them In.
