What magnification Scope?
- Thread starter Muir
- Start date
bambislayer
Well-Known Member
Hi Muir
When I started out, it 4x32 or 4x40 was pretty much standard for hill stalking ,
You would see the odd German client come in with large [2-10 x 56] german scopes.
In 94 I got a 6x45, which was an epifany for me !
I have used 8x56 for foxing since about 95.
Since 2000 I've used an 8x56 for everything , although I have a swavo 8x50 on my 270.
When ever possible I try and shoot prone of a bipod but in woodland I use split sticks , most woodland shots will be taken 40 - 100 metres and hill shots [prone with bipod] will average 60-150 although I'll take shots up to 220-250 if I really need to! Shots over 250m are rare with me and really only out of nessessity[i.e. wounded animal]
I think larger scopes are getting more popular here, but so is the use of bipods and shooting sticks
An 8x's scope I feel gives a good sized picture for shot placement , I've tried vari scopes up to 20x but find it all a bit too complicated with bits to turm & focus
When I started out, it 4x32 or 4x40 was pretty much standard for hill stalking ,
You would see the odd German client come in with large [2-10 x 56] german scopes.
In 94 I got a 6x45, which was an epifany for me !
I have used 8x56 for foxing since about 95.
Since 2000 I've used an 8x56 for everything , although I have a swavo 8x50 on my 270.
When ever possible I try and shoot prone of a bipod but in woodland I use split sticks , most woodland shots will be taken 40 - 100 metres and hill shots [prone with bipod] will average 60-150 although I'll take shots up to 220-250 if I really need to! Shots over 250m are rare with me and really only out of nessessity[i.e. wounded animal]
I think larger scopes are getting more popular here, but so is the use of bipods and shooting sticks
An 8x's scope I feel gives a good sized picture for shot placement , I've tried vari scopes up to 20x but find it all a bit too complicated with bits to turm & focus
Hello Muir
Same here. Started out with a 4X scopes soon when over to 6X scopes and finally ended up with 8X scopes. First on my .22-250 foxing/lamping rifle and now have them on everything.
I do have a a 6-24X56 Zeiss on the .22-250 these days but rarely wind it up past 12x
I have never been a fan of cheap budget priced optics, and have always purchased top end European products. Even to the extent that I've got a Swarovski on my .22lr.
I prefer prone off a long Harris bi-pod for hill stalking, and use all positions, as well as crossed sticks for woodland stalking depending upon the requirements
Same here. Started out with a 4X scopes soon when over to 6X scopes and finally ended up with 8X scopes. First on my .22-250 foxing/lamping rifle and now have them on everything.
I do have a a 6-24X56 Zeiss on the .22-250 these days but rarely wind it up past 12x
I have never been a fan of cheap budget priced optics, and have always purchased top end European products. Even to the extent that I've got a Swarovski on my .22lr.
I prefer prone off a long Harris bi-pod for hill stalking, and use all positions, as well as crossed sticks for woodland stalking depending upon the requirements
Claret_Dabbler
Well-Known Member
I have a Swarovski 8x50 on the 222rem and a S&B 3-12x50 on the 270win.
I could probably live with the fixed 8x50 on both except for Boar trips.
Most of my shooting is in low light or no light, I really like the 50mm scopes. The S&B is a bit heavy, I will probably swap it for a Swaro this year.
My shots run from 75 - 200m. Most shot at 100-120m. Shots are almost always sitting or standing over sticks.
I shot a deer from prone this season for the first time in about 5 years.
I could probably live with the fixed 8x50 on both except for Boar trips.
Most of my shooting is in low light or no light, I really like the 50mm scopes. The S&B is a bit heavy, I will probably swap it for a Swaro this year.
My shots run from 75 - 200m. Most shot at 100-120m. Shots are almost always sitting or standing over sticks.
I shot a deer from prone this season for the first time in about 5 years.
Muir, like many others I'm learning. One of my favourite scopes would be the bog standard 8x56 of good quality. I don't know about others but our deer just seem to vanish with the first light and only appear at last light. Since about two years I'm using a 3-12x50 S&B zenith flash-dot. Except for the weight I think this is as good as it gets. Great red dot on 3 mag if one goes into the forest after deer, 12 mag with a fine reticule for long range stuff. For a change I have a 6.5-20x50 zeiss conquest on my deer rifle since this week. Yesterday eve we where lying up on a elevated hump on a flat bog bordering a forest. Range to the forest 180m to the left, I expected to see deer comming from the front crossing at 250m. So on the bipod lying in the sheep sh*t. About to pack up at last light a deer comes out of the forest. Tried to check range but could see dibbly at that light through the leica. The zeiss scope was not to bad at 6.5 or a bit above. It took me about another 10min of observing to find out which way round the doe was, at least she was in a patch of yellow grass. I shot her high lung and scraped the spine. I wanted it to be high to drop her.
Off I went with my knife and left heavy gear with my friend. Tripping and falling through the bog I arrived wet to see the doe dead but a calf running around. Called my friend he should bring a rifle.. quick. Anyway he made it and at almost no light I got the calf at about 50yds off the shoulder.
Sorry for the long story, but that's the way it is. Closest so far 10-15 yds but then also precise shots way out. Standing, sitting, kneeling prone or off sticks, whatever suits.
edi
Off I went with my knife and left heavy gear with my friend. Tripping and falling through the bog I arrived wet to see the doe dead but a calf running around. Called my friend he should bring a rifle.. quick. Anyway he made it and at almost no light I got the calf at about 50yds off the shoulder.
Sorry for the long story, but that's the way it is. Closest so far 10-15 yds but then also precise shots way out. Standing, sitting, kneeling prone or off sticks, whatever suits.
edi
caorach
Well-Known Member
Another vote for the 8X56 S&B.
I could probably do with a 6 or even 4 times magnification but the 8 came along 2nd hand at just the right time and I bought it. I think having nothing to fiddle with is a positive thing, at least for a beginner like me, and the 8 matches up nicely with my binos. However, more field of view would be nice and sometimes I find it tricky to acquire the target so a 6 or 4 wouldn't be a bad thing. My rifle has excellent QD scope mounts so maybe if a good scope in 6 or 4 came up 2nd hand I might consider it, the problem being that the QD mounts are about £300.
The new Swaros look really nice but I don't think I'd be safe with a variable, too much for me to fiddle with when I should be concentrating on spotting the deer.
I could probably do with a 6 or even 4 times magnification but the 8 came along 2nd hand at just the right time and I bought it. I think having nothing to fiddle with is a positive thing, at least for a beginner like me, and the 8 matches up nicely with my binos. However, more field of view would be nice and sometimes I find it tricky to acquire the target so a 6 or 4 wouldn't be a bad thing. My rifle has excellent QD scope mounts so maybe if a good scope in 6 or 4 came up 2nd hand I might consider it, the problem being that the QD mounts are about £300.
The new Swaros look really nice but I don't think I'd be safe with a variable, too much for me to fiddle with when I should be concentrating on spotting the deer.
enfieldspares
Well-Known Member
I shot my first deer, on the hill, with a Churchill 270 mounting a Pecar 4 x 81 on a QD sidemount at just under 100 yards. 4x was perfectly adequate way back then (in fact there were some then who still used iron sights).
4x is still, IMHO, perfectly adequate now. More that enough at 100 yards if your eyesight is that of a young man.
For woodland stalking and pig I will use a Zeiss Diatal-C 4 x 32 with a "duplex" type No 20 reticule. For the hill either that or a Zeiss Diatal-C 6 x 32 with the same No 20 reticule. It depends on how close you expect to be able to stalk to.
Years ago I would have said I'd prefer to use the old "post and crosshair" similar to on the 303 No4(T) or 7.62mm L42 sniper rifle. Or the "German" reticule on the old Zeiss-Jean ZF4 and ZF6.
But not now. The less "rubbish" in the way of broad pointers, posts and side posts that covers the deer the better.
That "duplex" style is at least is something decent (along with Redfield type mounts) to have come out of the American 'scope industry.
I also think that the less weight the "add ons" the better. Keeping the 'scope and rings under one pound in weight is best. So that rules out even something like a 6 x 42.
With these x32 and x36 sights it is important to try the less cluttered reticule type. As said whereas I favoured once a "post and crosshair" I now think that a "duplex" Zeiss No 20 type is better. In a smaller size 'scope this is far better than the Zeiss No4.
I want to be able to see ALL of the animal I am shooting at to see how it reacts AND to be able to see "around and about" it when I shoot. To not lose the sight picture when the shot is taken.
And to not have the vision of the other eye blocked by a huge eyebell (I was taught to shoot a rifle always with both eyes open).
It isn't just about seeing the "barn door" it is about being able to see the barn and a good bit of the farmyard too (without a weight penalty) that is the major advantage of a good 4x or 6x.
Swaros, S & B, Zeiss, Pecar, Kahles are ALL good. I think that the lesser quality makers rely on 8 x 56 because they can't get a good enough light collection with their lenses in a 4 x 32 or 6 x 32 or similar.
4x is still, IMHO, perfectly adequate now. More that enough at 100 yards if your eyesight is that of a young man.
For woodland stalking and pig I will use a Zeiss Diatal-C 4 x 32 with a "duplex" type No 20 reticule. For the hill either that or a Zeiss Diatal-C 6 x 32 with the same No 20 reticule. It depends on how close you expect to be able to stalk to.
Years ago I would have said I'd prefer to use the old "post and crosshair" similar to on the 303 No4(T) or 7.62mm L42 sniper rifle. Or the "German" reticule on the old Zeiss-Jean ZF4 and ZF6.
But not now. The less "rubbish" in the way of broad pointers, posts and side posts that covers the deer the better.
That "duplex" style is at least is something decent (along with Redfield type mounts) to have come out of the American 'scope industry.
I also think that the less weight the "add ons" the better. Keeping the 'scope and rings under one pound in weight is best. So that rules out even something like a 6 x 42.
With these x32 and x36 sights it is important to try the less cluttered reticule type. As said whereas I favoured once a "post and crosshair" I now think that a "duplex" Zeiss No 20 type is better. In a smaller size 'scope this is far better than the Zeiss No4.
I want to be able to see ALL of the animal I am shooting at to see how it reacts AND to be able to see "around and about" it when I shoot. To not lose the sight picture when the shot is taken.
And to not have the vision of the other eye blocked by a huge eyebell (I was taught to shoot a rifle always with both eyes open).
It isn't just about seeing the "barn door" it is about being able to see the barn and a good bit of the farmyard too (without a weight penalty) that is the major advantage of a good 4x or 6x.
Swaros, S & B, Zeiss, Pecar, Kahles are ALL good. I think that the lesser quality makers rely on 8 x 56 because they can't get a good enough light collection with their lenses in a 4 x 32 or 6 x 32 or similar.
Jagare
Well-Known Member
When i started stalking i used a 4x ziess jena with the post & rail reticle on a .243 for woodland stalking. On my .308 i had a ziess variable 1.5-6 never had it off 6x in 30 years.
Bought a Mauser last year and have a S&B 3-12x50 FD no7 reticle on that. Most of my shooting is driven out to 70-80 mtrs. The flash dot is a great aid when i shoot down on the running moose range
For hunting with the dog i use a merkel combi with a 2.3-7x32 Kahles with the post & rail reticle
Bought a Mauser last year and have a S&B 3-12x50 FD no7 reticle on that. Most of my shooting is driven out to 70-80 mtrs. The flash dot is a great aid when i shoot down on the running moose range
For hunting with the dog i use a merkel combi with a 2.3-7x32 Kahles with the post & rail reticle
ezzy6.5
Well-Known Member
Another Scmitt 8x56 fan here too. I Strted out with a Ziess 6x42 on the 223 but one night shooting cubs i was struggling to see them well enough so i swapped it for a Meopta 4x12x56 that i absolutely hated so i took it back again and swapped it for a Scmitt 8x56 then i bought one for the 270 then a 30mm tube 8x56 scmitt for the 6.5x55, I had an AGS vairable on the HMR but swapped it for an 8x56 Docter. On the 22 i bought a Leopold Centenary 3x9x40 that is set on 6 perminately.
Most of my shooting is at Foxes with the 223 out to 250 maybe a little bit further on the right day, I tried a mates 243 Ackley last week with a 4x12 smitt on and it was ideal for the long stuff but couldnt cope with something at 75m without turning the mag down.
I favour a heavy duplex Reticule for low light work and lamping It doesnt seem to obscure to much of the target even at 200m+
Ezzy
Most of my shooting is at Foxes with the 223 out to 250 maybe a little bit further on the right day, I tried a mates 243 Ackley last week with a 4x12 smitt on and it was ideal for the long stuff but couldnt cope with something at 75m without turning the mag down.
I favour a heavy duplex Reticule for low light work and lamping It doesnt seem to obscure to much of the target even at 200m+
Ezzy
I seldom shoot at over 150m, and usually standing or highseat as most of my stalking is woodland. The scope on my main deer rifle is a 6x42 Hertel & Reuss which I've had for almost 20 years now and felt no need to change - I find that 6x is fine for all ranges except really close-up stuff when sometimes it's too much magnification! As long as the reticle is fine enough to use precisely, yet be clearly seen in low light, and the scope has good light gathering, then it's all I'm looking for.
My second rifle has a very nice Swarovski 4-12 vari prower on it, but I'm ashamed to say that I never seem to use it - it stays fixed on 6x although it's good to be able to bring it down to 4x occasionally. If I were buying a vari power scope today, I'd probably opt for something which would let me reduce the magnification even more, and to hell with increasing it too much.
My second rifle has a very nice Swarovski 4-12 vari prower on it, but I'm ashamed to say that I never seem to use it - it stays fixed on 6x although it's good to be able to bring it down to 4x occasionally. If I were buying a vari power scope today, I'd probably opt for something which would let me reduce the magnification even more, and to hell with increasing it too much.
Sam
Well-Known Member
i use a 8x56 S&B, it works fine right up till the lowest light, i think when you get into the top notch makes there all too similar too compare all do the job fine, i have a sawaro habitch thats 27 years old (twice as old as me!!) on my "pig poking iron" of a .308 i sent this scope in for looking at by swaro in 2008 beccause the zero was drifting left by about 6 inchs, came back in 5 weeks as good as new and only ayed £7 for p+p, i guess thats why there so expensive lifetime garentee
Sam
Sam
Well! This has been some interesting and informative reading! Thanks to all who responded. After reading the responses I can mark a few differences in hunting and shooting as done in the UK and as done here in the US, at least in the west where I live.
Firstly, your scopes tend to be much bigger –for light gathering I’m guessing. My cousin tells me that (generally) you can shoot large game 1 hour before sunrise and 1 hour after sunset. I can see where light gathering would come in handy. Here we are limited to about 20 minutes before and after. If we are shooting in any light approaching darkness we are usually out of those bounds. Vermin can be hunted at night depending on the state.
Next is that many of you tend to favor the heavier fixed magnification scopes on stalking rifles. A fixed 8X would not be found here unless it was on a varmint rifle (prairiedogs, etc) that was fired from a rest. Even a fixed 6X is considered a lot of magnification. Variables abound but if you canvass many hunters you’ll find that they are set and left at 3-4X most of the time. I think as a group, we here tend to shoot off hand a lot, and that makes for increased “over correction” of the natural cross hair instability with larger magnification scopes. My scope likes follow Claret D’s choices. I shoot a 3X on my .308 stalking rifle and the most magnification I carry is 3-9X variable but that is on a 22WMR. My CZ Hornet sports a S&B 6x42 and even on prairiedogs I consider that a large scope. (But it’s damned fine one so on the Hornet it stays!) I was shooting prairiedogs out to 200 yards with it yesterday and had no problems.
Most of the distances here in Montana are farther than those related above. A pretty average shot at a mule deer is 80 to 200 yards, and farther shots aren’t uncommon. Where I live on the steps above the Yellowstone and Big Horn rivers you can spot deer and antelope at a distance of miles. Getting close enough is the trick! When hunting along the creek beds and washes for deer you often see them as they make their way out of the wash and you have very little time to shoot. The last deer I got was 80+ yards off hand just before it disappeared over a rise. This is where the lower magnification scopes come in handy. I couldn’t imagine finding that deer in an 8X before he was gone.
The off hand nature of our shooting forces me to go out and practice with the .22 even when I don’t feel like it. At our tiny range you can find hunters firing at targets off hand every weekend. I have never tried shooting sticks but they seem to make sense for the long shots.
Thanks again for the insights into your hunting. Regards, ~Muir
Firstly, your scopes tend to be much bigger –for light gathering I’m guessing. My cousin tells me that (generally) you can shoot large game 1 hour before sunrise and 1 hour after sunset. I can see where light gathering would come in handy. Here we are limited to about 20 minutes before and after. If we are shooting in any light approaching darkness we are usually out of those bounds. Vermin can be hunted at night depending on the state.
Next is that many of you tend to favor the heavier fixed magnification scopes on stalking rifles. A fixed 8X would not be found here unless it was on a varmint rifle (prairiedogs, etc) that was fired from a rest. Even a fixed 6X is considered a lot of magnification. Variables abound but if you canvass many hunters you’ll find that they are set and left at 3-4X most of the time. I think as a group, we here tend to shoot off hand a lot, and that makes for increased “over correction” of the natural cross hair instability with larger magnification scopes. My scope likes follow Claret D’s choices. I shoot a 3X on my .308 stalking rifle and the most magnification I carry is 3-9X variable but that is on a 22WMR. My CZ Hornet sports a S&B 6x42 and even on prairiedogs I consider that a large scope. (But it’s damned fine one so on the Hornet it stays!) I was shooting prairiedogs out to 200 yards with it yesterday and had no problems.
Most of the distances here in Montana are farther than those related above. A pretty average shot at a mule deer is 80 to 200 yards, and farther shots aren’t uncommon. Where I live on the steps above the Yellowstone and Big Horn rivers you can spot deer and antelope at a distance of miles. Getting close enough is the trick! When hunting along the creek beds and washes for deer you often see them as they make their way out of the wash and you have very little time to shoot. The last deer I got was 80+ yards off hand just before it disappeared over a rise. This is where the lower magnification scopes come in handy. I couldn’t imagine finding that deer in an 8X before he was gone.
The off hand nature of our shooting forces me to go out and practice with the .22 even when I don’t feel like it. At our tiny range you can find hunters firing at targets off hand every weekend. I have never tried shooting sticks but they seem to make sense for the long shots.
Thanks again for the insights into your hunting. Regards, ~Muir
243varmint
Well-Known Member
Muir
An interesting account of your type of hunting, it does sound va lot different to the type I do over here.
Vermin control is mainly on the top of a Land Rover using a bipod.
Stalking is mainly wooded or in the feilds by them.
I use the same rifle for both( when i say vermin i mean foxes ), a T3 .243 heavy barralled with a S+B 8x56 which I have taken foxes at night to over 200m.
I find the light garthering of this scope at dawn and dusk exellant.
Montana sounds a great place to hunt.
Jonathon
An interesting account of your type of hunting, it does sound va lot different to the type I do over here.
Vermin control is mainly on the top of a Land Rover using a bipod.
Stalking is mainly wooded or in the feilds by them.
I use the same rifle for both( when i say vermin i mean foxes ), a T3 .243 heavy barralled with a S+B 8x56 which I have taken foxes at night to over 200m.
I find the light garthering of this scope at dawn and dusk exellant.
Montana sounds a great place to hunt.
Jonathon
I started off with a cheap simmons variable on my Ruger .308! Big mistake! 
I soon switched to a S&B 6X42 on my Ruger stutzen .243 which I loved For woodland stalking it was a great set up. I then switched to my 6.5 X 55 SW with a Zeiss. I am on my second Zeiss, not because its broke but because I wanted a 3-10 X 50 variable. I also have a S&B PM11 waiting to go on my next bang stick
Don't wast your money on cheap glass! I also have a pair of Swarovski 7 X 42 binos which I have had for about 15 years and still going strong although they have been back to Austria for a blown lense and they came back like new 8)
The moral of the story is buy Shite buy twice!
I soon switched to a S&B 6X42 on my Ruger stutzen .243 which I loved For woodland stalking it was a great set up. I then switched to my 6.5 X 55 SW with a Zeiss. I am on my second Zeiss, not because its broke but because I wanted a 3-10 X 50 variable. I also have a S&B PM11 waiting to go on my next bang stick Don't wast your money on cheap glass! I also have a pair of Swarovski 7 X 42 binos which I have had for about 15 years and still going strong although they have been back to Austria for a blown lense and they came back like new 8)
The moral of the story is buy Shite buy twice!
243varmint said:
One of the reasons I leave that S&B 6x42 on my Hornet is that in the summer, on a nice cool evening, it seems to add about 20 minutes of light to the shooting. The reticle is a but chunky for such small varmints but I have no problem doing my worst upon them out to 300 yards.
Montana is a great place to live and a great place to hunt. You can hunt everything from rabbit to Elk within a 60 mile radius of my home. In the winter months, on the eve of a severe storm, you will find herds of deer browsing in the late afternoon, usually with a huge herd buck in sight of the does. (Where he goes during hunting season is anybody's guess!) ~Muir
243varmint
Well-Known Member
Muir said:
Muir
Myself and the wife did a 'road trip' about 4 years ago and did the normal tourist thing. Started in Vagas, Grand Canyon, Zion National park, Death Valley, Yosemite and San Fransisco.
The stay in Zion was amazing, we had a meal one night and the stars which seamed so bright coming down into the canyon, every body was looking up, but me i was too busy looking at 4 deer on the front lawn of the lodge not 20feet away.
Can't wait to go back at some point and this time I might go hunting , you never know.
I did put some photo's in the deer section and in the landscape, if you poss ID the deer properly I only guessed
Jonathon
Like most I started with a 4x40, worked well. These days my favorite is a Ziess Diavari C 3x9x36, this is a excellent scope with the plex ret and outperforms everything else I have ever looked through in low light.
I have a Swaro 6x24x50 but use it at 8x almost all the while so as others have said an 8x50 would be as good. The only plus for the Swaro is the target turrets.
A
I have a Swaro 6x24x50 but use it at 8x almost all the while so as others have said an 8x50 would be as good. The only plus for the Swaro is the target turrets.
A
I use a boch and lomb 8x32x44 on my .17Rem
a4x20x44 burris 0n the .223Rem
and 6,5x25x44 leupold and a 6x44 s&b with leupold quick release mounts on the .308win reason being in the open or woodland and the time and yes both scopes hold their zero.
.22rimfire a 4x16x44 weaver'
I also use 10x44 burris binos but even these don,t pick up everything,one morning stalking roe i came accross 2 roe at about 250yds with rangefinder i could see a buck and doe they had seen me and ran to the fence with a dark background and ready to jump into the woods so i was not going to get in closer,so i put the .223 on the sticks cranked up the power and it was 2 bucks the so called doe had verry small antlers,so that was the 1 that got shot,so without the power i would have got the wrong buck.
a4x20x44 burris 0n the .223Rem
and 6,5x25x44 leupold and a 6x44 s&b with leupold quick release mounts on the .308win reason being in the open or woodland and the time and yes both scopes hold their zero.
.22rimfire a 4x16x44 weaver'
I also use 10x44 burris binos but even these don,t pick up everything,one morning stalking roe i came accross 2 roe at about 250yds with rangefinder i could see a buck and doe they had seen me and ran to the fence with a dark background and ready to jump into the woods so i was not going to get in closer,so i put the .223 on the sticks cranked up the power and it was 2 bucks the so called doe had verry small antlers,so that was the 1 that got shot,so without the power i would have got the wrong buck.
The telescopes curently on my rifles are:
6x42 on .308,6.5x55 and .22LR (S&B, S&B, Kahles)
6-24x56 variable parallax on .22-250 (Zeiss)
In the cupboard I have a 3-12x50 (Swaro) in mounts to go on the 6.5x55 should it be needed for woodland or crepuscular work. Also a 4-16x50 variable parallax (S&B) which has been superceded by the 6-24x56 with its sensibly finer illuminated dot reticle.
For deer on the hill and bunnies under the lamp the lightweight, bright and uncomplicated 6x42 really seems to do the job.
For the fox rifle, something brighter, if more faffy. Able to manage well under the lamp as well as long-range small things in daylight. Heavy, but usually used no great distance from a vehicle, if not actually on one.
6x42 on .308,6.5x55 and .22LR (S&B, S&B, Kahles)
6-24x56 variable parallax on .22-250 (Zeiss)
In the cupboard I have a 3-12x50 (Swaro) in mounts to go on the 6.5x55 should it be needed for woodland or crepuscular work. Also a 4-16x50 variable parallax (S&B) which has been superceded by the 6-24x56 with its sensibly finer illuminated dot reticle.
For deer on the hill and bunnies under the lamp the lightweight, bright and uncomplicated 6x42 really seems to do the job.
For the fox rifle, something brighter, if more faffy. Able to manage well under the lamp as well as long-range small things in daylight. Heavy, but usually used no great distance from a vehicle, if not actually on one.
Similar threads
