Which calibre lever action?

[25 Sharps]

Energy is not much use as a measure or usefulness. A Mini car traveling at 1mph may have more energy than a 300PRC but it is useless for deerstalking.

Very mild compared to a large calibre, 458 Winmag, for instance. It is very capable however, like a Martini Henry or similar calibres. I would not compare either with a 300PRC.

It can be shot very accurately long range and there is a following, shooting these to great effect out to 1300yds. Outshooting many modern rifles and cartridges, but as you pointed out, it is not useful for long range shots on deer due to the bullet drop. I would agree with a 150m MAX but better kept below 120m imo. It’s fine on known rages where the sights are set for that particular range.

We’re talking about lever actions where 400gr @2000fps can either be called a fantasy or attempted suicide. Only actions like the Ruger No1 or 3 or bolt actions can withstand those pressures. Lever actions cannot.

Agreed, compared to a dangerous game rifle it is mild.

But, in the UK deer stalking context it has heavy recoil, 2-3 times that of most common stalking calibres, exacerbated in a light lever action.



Also, 2000 fps isn’t a fantasy, Hodgdon give load data for such in their lever action specific data.

 

[25 Sharps]

The 300 prc comparison is purely based on the calculated recoil for my 300 PRC and 45-70 bother being very similar at around 39 ft-lb.

 

[Smellydog]

it's to do with BC and elevation and drop , it's page 1 of ballistics

you can use pretty much any bullet for anything but some are better than others .........

if you are still struggling with the concept for a practical demonstration try throwing a shuttle cock feathers first and see how you get on ?

Hahmm, I never said I don't understand it.
Just the fascination!
There is a difference.
More is better syndrome.
Most deer are shot at range where upon BC is a pointless factor.

 

[Lever357]

Consider the range you’ll be shooting at, 45-70 is not a long range cartridge. But if it’s sub 150 yards you’re golden. But if you’re at all recoil shy it’s not the cartridge for you!

Tell the guy on Youtube consistently banging steel at 900 yards with 45-70.

 

[tackb]

I've never understood the fascination with pointy bullets.
You've still got to give elevation to shoot at long range.
It doesn't matter if it's 8" or 16", you've still got to call it.
I've plinked at 600yds with my 357.

here you say you've never understood ........

i explained that it's to do with BC , thats why people are fascinated with it because it has so much to do with exterior ballistics , the BC of a bullet is probably the most important thing when dealing with exterior ballistics since it literally affects everything

do you see why people are fascinated by it now ?

 

[tackb]

Tell the guy on Youtube consistently banging steel at 900 yards with 45-70.

there is always exceptions , i love the old black powder cartridges but even the guy banging steel at 900yds will admit there are better options but wheres the fun in that ?

 

[25 Sharps]

Tell the guy on Youtube consistently banging steel at 900 yards with 45-70.

World of difference to making the first round count on deer.

 

[moeggesit]

Agreed, compared to a dangerous game rifle it is mild.

But, in the UK deer stalking context it has heavy recoil, 2-3 times that of most common stalking calibres, exacerbated in a light lever action.



Also, 2000 fps isn’t a fantasy, Hodgdon give load data for such in their lever action specific data.

View attachment 423877

That’s interesting, most data does not consider 40000CUP safe in lever actions and some manufacturers like Uberti state 29000

 

[tackb]

The pressure levels for .45-70 cartridges are not uniform and depend on the type of firearm. Generally, there are three levels of pressure:

• Trapdoor rifles: These older rifles, like the Springfield Trapdoor, have historically limited .45-70 loads to a lower pressure, around 20,000 PSI.
  
  
• Modern lever-action rifles (e.g., Marlin 1895): These rifles can handle higher pressures, often up to 43,000 PSI.
  
  
• High-strength rifles (e.g., Ruger No. 1): These rifles are designed to handle the highest pressures, potentially reaching 58,000 PSI or even higher,

thats a basic guide but hot rodding anything other than a ruger No1 is folly in my opinion

even the lowest trapdoor loads will punch a 45 cal hole through all deer in the UK

 

[Bo Diddley]

which I’ve had knock my hat off before when shooting off sticks, as I forgot I wasn’t shooting one of my normal stalking rifles .

That made me spit my coffee over the screen

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

Hi everyone
I've got a couple of bolt action rifles but I've always had a love for lever guns. Just looking for advice from owners which calibre they enjoy using the most.

Thanks

Nothing you can’t shoot in the uk with a 30-30

 

[Hyperion13]

Definitely have to do a good bit more research into this before I rush out and get something and lick the wrong calibre

 

[25 Sharps]

That made me spit my coffee over the screen

And I bloody missed the fox as a result!!

Held on properly later that morning and shot a roe doe to redeem the situation.

 

[25 Sharps]

That’s interesting, most data does not consider 40000CUP safe in lever actions and some manufacturers like Uberti state 29000

To be fair H4198 is the only powder that will get there, luckily I have 5 tubs plus 2 of IMR4198 which is slightly behind.

Haven’t really played with it yet as the 8208xbr gets the 300 gr sierra HP and 250 gr monoflex to where they need to be.

Around 31 gr imr4198 of behind a 405 gr cast is a pretty good replication of the original black powder load, and is pleasant to shoot.

 

[25 Sharps]

The pressure levels for .45-70 cartridges are not uniform and depend on the type of firearm. Generally, there are three levels of pressure:

• Trapdoor rifles: These older rifles, like the Springfield Trapdoor, have historically limited .45-70 loads to a lower pressure, around 20,000 PSI.
  
  
• Modern lever-action rifles (e.g., Marlin 1895): These rifles can handle higher pressures, often up to 43,000 PSI.
  
  
• High-strength rifles (e.g., Ruger No. 1): These rifles are designed to handle the highest pressures, potentially reaching 58,000 PSI or even higher,

thats a basic guide but hot rodding anything other than a ruger No1 is folly in my opinion

even the lowest trapdoor loads will punch a 45 cal hole through all deer in the UK

In a world where we didn’t have to justify every single rifle I’d be very tempted by a ruger #1 in 45-70, just to see what it could do.

 

[Smellydog]

here you say you've never understood ........

i explained that it's to do with BC , thats why people are fascinated with it because it has so much to do with exterior ballistics , the BC of a bullet is probably the most important thing when dealing with exterior ballistics since it literally affects everything

do you see why people are fascinated by it now ?

You have only partially quoted my sentence.
Had you read the sentence in full you would get the context of what I said.

I never stated I don't understand ballistic coefficients.
Do you really think after 40+ years of shooting I don't understand ballistic coefficients?

 

[reiver]

To be fair H4198 is the only powder that will get there, luckily I have 5 tubs plus 2 of IMR4198 which is slightly behind.

Haven’t really played with it yet as the 8208xbr gets the 300 gr sierra HP and 250 gr monoflex to where they need to be.

Around 31 gr imr4198 of behind a 405 gr cast is a pretty good replication of the original black powder load, and is pleasant to shoot.

Got a spare tub of imr 4198 that I doubt I will use ? As I much prefer Rl 7 in my .444 for full fat Loads and 2400 for plinking . .

 

[25 Sharps]

Got a spare tub of imr 4198 that I doubt I will use ? As I much prefer Rl 7 in my .444 for full fat Loads and 2400 for plinking . .

I think you offered when I was first looking, turned out my RFD had 5 tubs at home!

If I’m ever up your way and it’s still going spare I’d gladly take it off your hands

 

[tackb]

You have only partially quoted my sentence.
Had you read the sentence in full you would get the context of what I said.

I never stated I don't understand ballistic coefficients.
Do you really think after 40+ years of shooting I don't understand ballistic coefficients?

i quoted the only part i wanted to bring to your attention , sigh

you stated you did not understand the fascination with pointy bullets , i am trying without success it would seem to explain something you don't understand

and if you have the understanding of BC that you claim to after 40 plus years of shooting then i am at a loss to understand how you don't understand the fascination with pointy bullets since with your vast knowledge of BC you'll already know that pointy bullets have a better BC than blunt bullets , so you are either arguing for arguments sake or being deliberately obtuse or you don't know anything about BC ? personally i think you do know about BC etc having read a few of your posts which leaves the other two options ?

 

[moeggesit]

On the question of which lever action, for stalking I would consider one of the following:
First Henry then Marlin in 30/30 or 45/70
Browning BLR in something like .243 or .308, more practical choice with box mag.
If you’re feeling adventurous, maybe a Savage 99 in 25-3000 or similar.
Winchester would not be a prime candidate (personal choice) but equally useful in 30/30, or one of their propriety offerings.
.444 is also quite useful.