Which calibre lever action?

[Hyperion13]

Definitely some interesting info to take into consideration here , I had no idea you could get one chambered in 6.5cm that would do the job but I think I'd probably like to go with something more traditional. Leaning towards 30/30 or 45-70 I think

 

[MilesW]

Browning BLR? Pretty much any calibre you want. Spitzers no problem. Spare magazine in your pocket. Terrific handling and a very slick action. Possible downside, few gunsmiths want to touch them, if needed.
For the traditional lever actions, 30-30 is very hard to beat as the all rounder. The Leverevolution ammo gives spitzer type options.

 

[ejg]

Quite like the 30-30 in my stainless Marlin.

edi

 

[Smellydog]

I've never understood the fascination with pointy bullets.
You've still got to give elevation to shoot at long range.
It doesn't matter if it's 8" or 16", you've still got to call it.
I've plinked at 600yds with my 357.

 

[25 Sharps]

Wow thanks for the great response everyone!
While I do love the idea of cheap plinking with a 22lr I would like to be able to take at least a Roe if not the occasional red.
I've not yet tried a 45-70 but I do love the idea of that power , just wonder if it would be overkill

Consider the range you’ll be shooting at, 45-70 is not a long range cartridge. But if it’s sub 150 yards you’re golden. But if you’re at all recoil shy it’s not the cartridge for you!

 

[MilesW]

I've never understood the fascination with pointy bullets.
You've still got to give elevation to shoot at long range.
It doesn't matter if it's 8" or 16", you've still got to call it.
I've plinked at 600yds with my 357.

Absolutely. I threw it in because the spitzer thing figured in a few of the replies, and the 140gr leverevolution ammo is an off the shelf solution to the velocity/energy problem, and there seems to be an almost religious devotion to BC nowadays that the zealots are reluctant to give up.
357 is way underrated in a rifle.

 

[25 Sharps]

357 is an excellent choice in a leveraction.
Note I said leveraction. The action is operated via a lever. It is not under levered.

The 357 can do it all. It can plink cheaply, it can hunt efficiently. From a levergun it can do everything despite what the experts wrote down into law.

Only thing it can’t do is reach 1700 ft-lb.

Great for munties though.

 

[25 Sharps]

The 444 Marlin will do Scottish velocity the easiest according to my pretty exhaustive research from when I wanted a lever gun, but they're also a long time out of production and not easy to come by...

I've settled for a 44 Magnum, mainly because (when it finally arrives) I can also use it for gallery rifle as it's a pistol calibre. I would still love a 45-70, and may well get one at some point, but not yet...

As I posted on the other thread, there’s 2 or 3 444 marlin available on gun trader currently. 1 has been in there a while.

 

[Smellydog]

Only thing it can’t do is reach 1700 ft-lb.

Great for munties though.

A figure set by experts no less.
Ex as in the unknown factor and pert as in erect nipple!

If you squint real hard it's sometimes difficult to separate the species' from one to the other....

 

[Smellydog]

45-70 is not a long range cartridge

Not so sure of that buddy.
It had to meet a lot of requirements for the military at the time. One of them being to kill or incapacitate a horse at 1000yds plus if I remember correctly.
From open sights and black powder too.

 

[jthyttin]

One of them being to kill or incapacitate a horse at 1000yds plus if I remember correctly.
From open sights and black powder too.

Sadly in deer stalking you don't have the platoon with you, firing volleys at herds of unsuspecting deer...

 

[Smellydog]

Sadly in deer stalking you don't have the platoon with you, firing volleys at herds of unsuspecting deer...

Aye and most deer ain't shot at long ranges anyway..

 

[Heym SR20]

Spitzers in most 3030 leverguns are not a two shot option.
The increase in overall length won't allow them to cycle.

Most 125-130 grains can hover around the stupid Scottish requirements for no one to care, and no one ever did care when I visited Scotland and the deer there hated it just as much as anywhere else on this planet!

Challenge that we have in Scotland with min velocities and muzzle energies are

1) The FEO’s will be reluctant to let you have a particular calibre conditioned for deer unless there is readily available ammo fir such rifles that meets the requirements. The classic is the 6.5x54 Mannlicher. This can easily be handloaded with a 140 grain bullet to well above the 2450 fps, but the factory ammo all use a 156gn that doesn’t meet the requirements, hence the 6.5x54 pretty much became obsolete and were all let go.

2) much of land over which in particular syndicates operate are under the stewardship of big forestry companies all of which are subject to audit to meet grants etc. this includes ensuring that all those operating on the land abide by laws and regulations, and this is passed onto to all syndicates, contractors etc. Even big private estates with factors etc all insist on compliance.

Smaller pockets of private land probably don’t care that much.

But it is all fine until its not.

The 2450 fps is a very arbitrary number, and I suspect it was put in to encourage a switch from old and worn out 303 enfields to more modern 270 win Parker Hales etc. Bear in mind we are talking Scotland where Estate Owners, Civil servants and factors all have very short arms and very long pockets, and providing their stalkers and rangers with decent kit was beyond comprehension. The regulation was brought in the 1980’s I think in the days long before range finders.

 

[25 Sharps]

Not so sure of that buddy.
It had to meet a lot of requirements for the military at the time. One of them being to kill or incapacitate a horse at 1000yds plus if I remember correctly.
From open sights and black powder too.

Yes, but, I don’t think that was with a single, aimed shot though. They also killed a lot of buffalo with it!

No doubt the power is there, it looks like the original load would have carried about 400 ft-lb at 1000 yards. But it’s not, in the hands of the average shooter, a long range round. BCs are very low so drop and wind drift are very apparent and it sheds velocity quickly.

My 300 gr hunting load has 37” drop and 27” wind drift at 300 yards. My 6.5x55, a cartridge of similar vintage though loaded to modern pressures, has 13” drop and 7” shot of drift, my .280 is better again.

But more importantly, with my rifle at least, the accuracy isn’t there, add 1.5 to 2 moa at 100 yards vs .5-.75 moa at 200 with the swede, a 200/250/300 yard roe kill zone is not something I’d take on with the 45-70.

Something I do fairly regularly with the .280 and have absolute confidence in.

 

[tackb]

I've never understood the fascination with pointy bullets.
You've still got to give elevation to shoot at long range.
It doesn't matter if it's 8" or 16", you've still got to call it.
I've plinked at 600yds with my 357.

it's to do with BC and elevation and drop , it's page 1 of ballistics

you can use pretty much any bullet for anything but some are better than others .........

if you are still struggling with the concept for a practical demonstration try throwing a shuttle cock feathers first and see how you get on ?

 

[moeggesit]

Wow thanks for the great response everyone!
While I do love the idea of cheap plinking with a 22lr I would like to be able to take at least a Roe if not the occasional red.
I've not yet tried a 45-70 but I do love the idea of that power , just wonder if it would be overkill

Overkill? Can it be more than dead? 45-70 is very mild but capable cartridge.

 

[Namman]

Wow thanks for the great response everyone!
While I do love the idea of cheap plinking with a 22lr I would like to be able to take at least a Roe if not the occasional red.
I've not yet tried a 45-70 but I do love the idea of that power , just wonder if it would be overkill

No such thing as overkill. Dead is dead.
Unless you are using artillery !

 

[25 Sharps]

Overkill? Can it be more than dead? 45-70 is very mild but capable cartridge.

I wouldn’t call it mild,let alone very mild, it is with gallery loads but start throwing 300-400 grain bullets at 2000 fps plus and it’s definitely a thumper!

Recoil is pretty much the same as my 300 PRC, which I’ve had knock my hat off before when shooting off sticks, as I forgot I wasn’t shooting one of my normal stalking rifles .

 

[reiver]

Browning BLR? Pretty much any calibre you want. Spitzers no problem. Spare magazine in your pocket. Terrific handling and a very slick action. Possible downside, few gunsmiths want to touch them, if needed.
For the traditional lever actions, 30-30 is very hard to beat as the all rounder. The Leverevolution ammo gives spitzer type options.

I used to have a Blr in .308 very fast handling .though sometimes a little temperamental feeding the 2nd round out the mag so I sold it
I also had a repro 1895 Winchester in 30-06 made for browning wish I had never sold it ! I was going to re barrel it in 9.3 x62
But it was just to nice a rifle ..

 

[moeggesit]

I wouldn’t call it mild,let alone very mild, it is with gallery loads but start throwing 300-400 grain bullets at 2000 fps plus and it’s definitely a thumper!

Recoil is pretty much the same as my 300 PRC, which I’ve had knock my hat off before when shooting off sticks, as I forgot I wasn’t shooting one of my normal stalking rifles .

Energy is not much use as a measure or usefulness. A Mini car traveling at 1mph may have more energy than a 300PRC but it is useless for deerstalking.

Very mild compared to a large calibre, 458 Winmag, for instance. It is very capable however, like a Martini Henry or similar calibres. I would not compare either with a 300PRC.

It can be shot very accurately long range and there is a following, shooting these to great effect out to 1300yds. Outshooting many modern rifles and cartridges, but as you pointed out, it is not useful for long range shots on deer due to the bullet drop. I would agree with a 150m MAX but better kept below 120m imo. It’s fine on known rages where the sights are set for that particular range.

We’re talking about lever actions where 400gr @2000fps can either be called a fantasy or attempted suicide. Only actions like the Ruger No1 or 3 or bolt actions can withstand those pressures. Lever actions cannot.