Wild Boar - Minimum calibre?

[FrenchieBoy]

This doesn't really effect me as I don't have the opportunity to shoot Wild Boar in my area, but it might be of interest to others so I am asking out of curiosity.
I have just watched this video:
George Digweed says on the video (@ around 1:30) that Sussex police say that you must have Wild Boar on your conditions. I'm not faulting what George says but what I am questioning is the need for Wild Boar to be specified on your conditions. If you have the condition of AOLQ on your certificate it would cover you for Wild Boar without having to have Wild Boar specified.
Is this just another example of a Firearms Office making up more rules/restrictions up as they go along?
Any thoughts gents?

 

[palmer_mike]

Is this just another example of a Firearms Office making up more rules/restrictions up as they go along?

Yes, no legal minimum (although .270 I believe is recommended as a minimum) also aolq would cover boar.

 

[JTO]

I was told by a local deer keeper that Dorset Police would not sanction anything less 'powerful' than .270 for Boar and that .308 was not 'powerful' enough. The Firearms Officer does not agree, so I am going to swap out my .270 for another .308.

 

[Boarboy]

Theres a similar discussion about this in one of the wild boar threads, or rather thread diverted to this!

 

[finnbear270]

I was told by a local deer keeper that Dorset Police would not sanction anything less 'powerful' than .270 for Boar and that .308 was not 'powerful' enough. The Firearms Officer does not agree, so I am going to swap out my .270 for another .308.

Another example of a LITTLE knowledge being employed incorrectly, re .308 that guy has seagulls in his head.

 

[FGYT]

teh Vid was put up in 2013 and says was last year so 2012

only in the last couple of years that AOLQ has been Pushed as std by t Working group committee

so most had to ask for Boar as a condition

and you do have to have it on your licence either Wild boar specifically (where they would insist on the min cal HO guides ) or AOLQ puts them on their

 

[FGYT]

I was told by a local deer keeper that Dorset Police would not sanction anything less 'powerful' than .270 for Boar and that .308 was not 'powerful' enough. The Firearms Officer does not agree, so I am going to swap out my .270 for another .308.

Dorset (im Dorset) will give you AOLQ on all rifles as per HO Guidance and Working group committee insistence so you can use anything your happy shooting one with if offered a single boar day I would take my 6.5 (obviously not driven boar) as its AOLQ ..

if i wanted to do Boar shooting on a regulater basis i would put in for a larger cal because I can and they cant say ive a gun suited as HO guidance recommends min cal

If you ask for a gun slot Reason Boar they will insist that the min cal is as per HO guidlines

before the insistence of HO guidance being followed DOrset wouldn't give 17HMR for Reason Fox and would wack a mentor on everybody and not give AOLQ

I got 17HMR for fox no mentor and AOLQ on all guns this year for 1st grant

 

[Orion]

I have just watched this video:

As has been said, it's a bit out of date now that the HO Guidance has been revised and the College of Policing Authorised Professional Practice has effectively directed police FLDs to align their procedures with it. Everything has been much simplified, so be guided by the .....................Guidance!

10.38 There is no requirement to establish ‘good reason’ for additional conditions or the
addition of quarry species to an existing condition where ‘good reason’ already exists
for the possession of a firearm in the first instance (See chapter 13). Firearms should be
conditioned to provide flexibility with quarry shooting by allowing all lawful quarry (see
Appendix 3).

&

13.9 A certificate holder may shoot any quarry that is lawful (where they are authorised to
shoot). Whilst guidance is provided, it is the responsibility of the shooter and the shooting
community to know what calibre is suitable for which quarry, and when certain quarry
is lawful (including the need to obtain or rely upon a licence from the relevant licensing
authority to permit the shooting of protected species). Once initial “good reason” has been
established for the possession of a firearm, there is no requirement for “good reason” to be
demonstrated for additional quarry species or amendments providing the firearms are not
underpowered for the species (see also paragraph 13.17). A cartridge should be capable of
achieving a humane kill, and it is the responsibility of the shooter to ensure that any excess
energy will be absorbed by the backstop. The “any other lawful quarry” condition
(which also covers protected species that the certificate holder is licensed to shoot) should
be applied. If an applicant is suitable to hold a firearm certificate and is deemed safe to
do so, there is no requirement to restrict the quarry they shoot by the use of conditions
imposed on the individual’s firearm certificate.

The problem of course being that until wild boar are accorded some form of primary legislation similar to the Deer Act(s) with close seasons, minimum calbres/engergy values, etc., there is no stopping anyone with the AOLQ using any firearm, suitable or not!

 

[FGYT]

As has been said, it's a bit out of date now that the HO Guidance has been revised and the College of Policing Authorised Professional Practice has effectively directed police FLDs to align their procedures with it. Everything has been much simplified, so be guided by the .....................Guidance!

10.38 There is no requirement to establish ‘good reason’ for additional conditions or the
addition of quarry species to an existing condition where ‘good reason’ already exists
for the possession of a firearm in the first instance (See chapter 13). Firearms should be
conditioned to provide flexibility with quarry shooting by allowing all lawful quarry (see
Appendix 3).

&

13.9 A certificate holder may shoot any quarry that is lawful (where they are authorised to
shoot). Whilst guidance is provided, it is the responsibility of the shooter and the shooting
community to know what calibre is suitable for which quarry, and when certain quarry
is lawful (including the need to obtain or rely upon a licence from the relevant licensing
authority to permit the shooting of protected species). Once initial “good reason” has been
established for the possession of a firearm, there is no requirement for “good reason” to be
demonstrated for additional quarry species or amendments providing the firearms are not
underpowered for the species (see also paragraph 13.17). A cartridge should be capable of
achieving a humane kill, and it is the responsibility of the shooter to ensure that any excess
energy will be absorbed by the backstop. The “any other lawful quarry” condition
(which also covers protected species that the certificate holder is licensed to shoot) should
be applied. If an applicant is suitable to hold a firearm certificate and is deemed safe to
do so, there is no requirement to restrict the quarry they shoot by the use of conditions
imposed on the individual’s firearm certificate.

The problem of course being that until wild boar are accorded some form of primary legislation similar to the Deer Act(s) with close seasons, minimum calbres/engergy values, etc., there is no stopping anyone with the AOLQ using any firearm, suitable or not!

you can be prosecuted under the CWA1981 for causing unnecessary suffering and cruelty

pretty certain the thing stopping me form using my 17HMR AOLQ on Boar is me

do we need a Act for every Quarry ??? fox goat etc

 

[Greener Jim]

Just to clarify, HO guidance doesnt have a minimum caliber for Boar. All mention of .270 being the minimum is linked to The Deer Iniative.

See 13.27 in the link below. Also see 13.93 for the chart.
ttps://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/417199/Guidance_on_Firearms_Licensing_Law_v13.pdf

Therefore, the Police are not going against guidelines if they said you already had a caliber that they deemed suitable. I would imagine that most would allow larger as even they know its a much larger and tougher animal.
In this case HO guidance can be used against them to get what you need just as it usually would but i would be careful relying on it since the chart says that smaller calibers are suitable. It does refer to 13.27 but again, thats not HO guidance, just from an independent organisation.

Devon and Cornwall will grant very large calibers for boar and im sure many others will. This advice is for those living in more restrictive areas.

I've heard from a member on here that Dorset dont believe anything in the UK needs bigger than a 30-06. He has a 375 h&h but had to go abroad with it and then apply for UK use afterwards.

 

[Orion]

you can be prosecuted under the CWA1981 for causing unnecessary suffering and cruelty

Only if it could be proven that unecessary suffering and cruelty was caused. It doesn't follow that shooting boar with, say, even a .22lr would trigger a prosecution provided it was killed cleanly.

pretty certain the thing stopping me form using my 17HMR AOLQ on Boar is me

Which is surely as it should be with responsible, experienced shooters, and why the selection of suitable firearms for use on quarry has devolved to the FAC holder in the field and not some office bod who may have little actual knowledge of the sporting use of firearms.

do we need a Act for every Quarry ??? fox goat etc

I doubt it, but I feel the case for wild boar, being a large game animal is compelling - and would bring us into line with our European neighbours.

 

[JTO]

Another example of a LITTLE knowledge being employed incorrectly, re .308 that guy has seagulls in his head.

Well, it was several years ago. I have been hanging onto the .270 just in case the opportunity arose, but with Dorset boar costing £400+ to shoot, I don't think that is likely now.

 

[nun_hunter]

I can confirm that back in 2012 I was told by my FEO in Sussex that I would need proof of boar in order to get boar added to my ticket and would only get it if I had a minimum of .270. At the time I had a .243 conditioned for AOLQ. I have subsequently asked my new FEO and he said "no it's covered by aolq and the minimum is just a guide, there is nothing to stop you legally shooting boar with your .243". Whether this was a turn around d from the whole department or just my original FEO didn't have a clue what he was on about.

 

[Erik Hamburger]

This doesn't really effect me as I don't have the opportunity to shoot Wild Boar in my area, but it might be of interest to others so I am asking out of curiosity.
I have just watched this video:
George Digweed says on the video (@ around 1:30) that Sussex police say that you must have Wild Boar on your conditions. I'm not faulting what George says but what I am questioning is the need for Wild Boar to be specified on your conditions. If you have the condition of AOLQ on your certificate it would cover you for Wild Boar without having to have Wild Boar specified.
Is this just another example of a Firearms Office making up more rules/restrictions up as they go along?
Any thoughts gents?

I asked my Police Firearms Licensing dept the same question recently for on a.308 rifle, already conditioned for deer and fox, and got this answer: [FONT=&quot]We will add wild boar (the good reason legal requirement has already been established (deer)) so wild boar becomes a ‘secondary purpose’. [/FONT]

In my county they don't give AOLQ for reasons that escape me, which would be the easier and better way, and it is Home Office Guidance as best practice.
The answer I was given doesn't mention caliber but as my question was specific to a .308W rifle maybe they felt no need to mention it.
It does, however, make you wonder if you have a .243W conditioned for deer, if 'wild boar' than could become a 'secondary purpose', when of course the unofficial min. caliber for wild boar in most Police forces (but not in all forces) is .270.
While I have been getting prompt replies and advice from my Force, I still feel they make things unnecessary complicated and confusing by not following Home Office guidance.

 

[FGYT]

I asked my Police Firearms Licensing dept the same question recently for on a.308 rifle, already conditioned for deer and fox, and got this answer: [FONT=&amp]We will add wild boar (the good reason legal requirement has already been established (deer)) so wild boar becomes a ‘secondary purpose’. [/FONT]

In my county they don't give AOLQ for reasons that escape me, which would be the easier and better way, and it is Home Office Guidance as best practice.
The answer I was given doesn't mention caliber but as my question was specific to a .308W rifle maybe they felt no need to mention it.
It does, however, make you wonder if you have a .243W conditioned for deer, if 'wild boar' than could become a 'secondary purpose', when of course the unofficial min. caliber for wild boar in most Police forces (but not in all forces) is .270.
While I have been getting prompt replies and advice from my Force, I still feel they make things unnecessary complicated and confusing by not following Home Office guidance.

ask them for a copy of the written explanation they have submitted to the FELWG of policing for not following HO guidance as required in the APP issued by the College

Firearms licensing

 

[FrenchieBoy]

teh Vid was put up in 2013 and says was last year so 2012

only in the last couple of years that AOLQ has been Pushed as std by t Working group committee

so most had to ask for Boar as a condition

and you do have to have it on your licence either Wild boar specifically (where they would insist on the min cal HO guides ) or AOLQ puts them on their

Fair comment. I didn't think to look at when the video was made.

 

[ELMER FUDD]

I asked my feo in Gwent would I be able to shoot Feral pigs/boar which I had caught in a trap with a moderated .22 in noise sensitive areas and he replied that you can use any calibre to shoot them as they are feral pigs and not boar, this is why they don't put boar on your certificate any more as they are feral pigs/pests. He did say however that if a pig was shot and not dropped on the spot and someone was filming you, you could be prosecuted for unnecessary suffering as the suggested minimum calibre by The Deer Initiative is .270

 

[paul k]

The Home Office guidelines certainly used to say minimum was .270 I've used .30-06 perfectly happily and the stalker had a .457 as back up!

 

[Greener Jim]

What amazes me is that, when I was getting my variation done, I asked the head of my FL department this same question.
He said that .270 was the minimum BUT he wasn't interested in energy at all. So a .257 Weatherby is a no go but a 30-30 is fine.
Going by what the Deer Initiative advised, he's not wrong either.

Obviously both will kill boar, just seems a little stupid that only caliber is recommended, not energy.

 

[Orion]

He did say however that if a pig was shot and not dropped on the spot and someone was filming you, you could be prosecuted for unnecessary suffering as the suggested minimum calibre by The Deer Initiative is .270

Yeah, but that is for wild boar not the 'feral pigs' he implies are out there.

Might Gwent FLD not be entering wild boar on FACs because of the adoption of the AOLQ condition instead?

Strange that DEFRA, DI, HO Guidance, etc. etc. all refer to 'wild boar' isn't it?

http://www.wild-boar.org.uk/guide_list/