Wild Boar - Minimum calibre?

[Dorsettaff]

Dorset am I please to say have become more "enlightened" recently.

Standard now is the AOLQ wording and the use of 9.3mm & .375 have been granted with expanding ammunition for AOLQ once "good reason" to possess such a calibre (e.g. plains game or driven wild boar abroad) has been established

Mind you those grey squirrels don't like a 9.3mm up 'em!!

 

[ELMER FUDD]

Yeah, but that is for wild boar not the 'feral pigs' he implies are out there.

Might Gwent FLD not be entering wild boar on FACs because of the adoption of the AOLQ condition instead?

Strange that DEFRA, DI, HO Guidance, etc. etc. all refer to 'wild boar' isn't it?

http://www.wild-boar.org.uk/guide_list/

Logically speaking, if 'wild boar' died out in this country more than 300 years ago and the pigs that now are about the Dean are from released farmed stock (crossbred iron age and Tamworth pigs) then they are not true wild boar but feral pigs. I believe there was an article where a shooter was taken to court for shooting a wild boar without having his certificate conditioned to shoot boar, however the case was thrown out when it was proven that this 'boar' was none other than an hairy feral pig and was not indigenous to this country. It was therefore a pest which was conditioned on his certificate to shoot pests.

Just found another link to boar/hairy pigs

https://www.questia.com/article/1G1-142458323/your-hairy-pig-is-not-a-wild-boar-farmer-cleared

 

[timbrayford]

Not all wild boar are Tamworth crosses, the Dorset ones are supposed to be a pure wild strain.

atb Tim

 

[enfieldspares]

This '.270 minimum' is the same stupid, silly, bl**dy nonsense (peddled by the BDS in that instance) that killed the 6.5mmx54MS for deer in Scotland and now seems to want to see it off as an acceptable wild boar calibre.

Now, fact is, there aren't many 6.5mmx54MS here in UK anymore. When I was a young man you couldn't in fact even given them away after decade in which the Deer Order (or whatever) came into force. Yet it was and is a perfectly sensible calibre on the continent before WWI and remains a perfectly sensible calibre today.

Old stalkers spoke of the rifle being able to hear a solid thump if it was a good hit as the sound speed of the impact..getting back to the stalker and the rifle...wasn't masked by the report of the gun.

Having said that in some parts of Europe 7mm is the minimum and in others...thus the RWS 156 grain Evolution and Sako's 156 grain Hammerhead...a ten grain weight is the minimum. Making 150 grain bullets illegal by...4 grains!

I see no reason why cartridges such as 6.5mmx54MS and, of course, the 6.5mmx55 Swedish are not, with a ten grain (154/160 grain) bullet considered adequate here when on the continent BOTH are well though of for being adequate for that purpose or for elk.

More idiots that ignore what worked in the past years to try to make a 'name' for themselves in the present day.

 

[ELMER FUDD]

Not all wild boar are Tamworth crosses, the Dorset ones are supposed to be a pure wild strain.

atb Tim

May be so Tim but they are still not indigenous to this country so would be just feral if released. I seem to recall there was another case where a landowner was taken to court for keeping wild boar and didn't have a dangerous wild animal licence to keep them and in court he explained that the pigs/boar were ones which he had captured in a trap as they were feral and the case was thrown out of court.

 

[palmer_mike]

Does it then follow that fallow, sika, muntjac and CWD are feral rather than wild deer?

 

[ELMER FUDD]

Does it then follow that fallow, sika, muntjac and CWD are feral rather than wild deer?

Don't know on that one but I think they just come under introduced or something although I suppose most were escapees from deer parks etc. I have been looking up on the boar/feral pigs in the uk as I am going to start trapping them and wanted to know where I stood legally and what law was written up on them. It is all very vague with different bodies having their own ideas on what should and shouldn't be but at the moment they are still feral pigs or feral wild boar as some say just because they look something like a boar.
I suppose if they ever get protection as a game animal and not pest then they would have to have a title like boar and not just feral pig, as with deer species which have separate closed seasons and so couldn't just be called feral deer. Someone on here is no doubt an expert on it and could clarify why deer are not classed as feral.

 

[Greener Jim]

I imagine because the escapees from deer parks were always classed as game animals, they were just captive game animals. They were still hunted. When they escaped they just became wild game animals in the eyes of the majority at the time.
Wildboar (or goats for that matter) were always livestock.
Essentially the same thing but that change of wording makes more difference than it maybe should.
Thats my take on it.

 

[timbrayford]

May be so Tim but they are still not indigenous to this country so would be just feral if released. I seem to recall there was another case where a landowner was taken to court for keeping wild boar and didn't have a dangerous wild animal licence to keep them and in court he explained that the pigs/boar were ones which he had captured in a trap as they were feral and the case was thrown out of court.

I can't agree
Native species (indigenous) –A species, subspecies or lower taxon, occurring within its natural range (past and present) and dispersal potential (i.e. within the range it occupies naturally or could occupy without direct or indirect introduction or care by humans) (IUCN Guidelines, 2000).

Absence does not stop a species being indigenous, I'm sure that many will be familiar with the Mongolian Wild Horse Equus przewalskii (Mongolia)and Pere Davids deer Elaphurus davidianus (China), both became extinct in their native lands but that does not stop them being indigenous to those areas... even if they have had to be reintroduced.

atb Tim

 

[timbrayford]

Does it then follow that fallow, sika, muntjac and CWD are feral rather than wild deer?

They are commonly described as "wild" (see defra website) Fallow, CWD and Sika are described as non-native whilst Muntjac is described as an invasive non-native species.

atb Tim

 

[timbrayford]

I imagine because the escapees from deer parks were always classed as game animals, they were just captive game animals. They were still hunted. When they escaped they just became wild game animals in the eyes of the majority at the time.
Wildboar (or goats for that matter) were always livestock.
Essentially the same thing but that change of wording makes more difference than it maybe should.
Thats my take on it.

The Forestry Commission have defined how to distinguish between an escaped farmed deer and a wild deer, they say

"deer that have escaped from captivity and are not visibly marked are considered feral wild deer".

Incidentally, any deer with an ear tag or other visible marking that indicates that it has escaped from captivity on a deer farm must be treated in exactly the same manner as any other escaped livestock , i.e. it always belongs to its owner, you cannot kill it and keep the carcase without the owners permission.

atb Tim

 

[Greener Jim]

Cheers Tim, useful post that.

However, I was referring to why non-native deer aren't classed as feral.
At some point they escaped and bred but at no point were they classed as feral.
Treated as pests and driven to waiting shotguns, yes, but never were they referred to as feral.

I have no idea why like! Just a (probably flawed) theory

 

[Jagare]

My take on the right caliber for boar is this. I want to be armed with a weapon that will handle the largest boar moose that will likely cross my path. So I pick a rifle and bullet combo that will do the job as long as I do my part.
There was an article in one of our hunting mags a couple of years ago that compered the wounding ratio to caliber on boar. 6.5x55 the smallest, 9.3x 62 the largest. Guess what caliber had the highest wounding rate?
Always good to argue whether boar are feral or pure . Thats going to really work out how you manage boar in the correct way. I hope all the future boar managers will do a better job than they have controlling the spread of munti's

 

[timbrayford]

So what is the optimum bullet shape & type for the faster calibres, eg. MV of around 2800-3000fps?

atb Tim

 

[ELMER FUDD]

I can't agree
Native species (indigenous) –A species, subspecies or lower taxon, occurring within its natural range (past and present) and dispersal potential (i.e. within the range it occupies naturally or could occupy without direct or indirect introduction or care by humans) (IUCN Guidelines, 2000).

Absence does not stop a species being indigenous, I'm sure that many will be familiar with the Mongolian Wild Horse Equus przewalskii (Mongolia)and Pere Davids deer Elaphurus davidianus (China), both became extinct in their native lands but that does not stop them being indigenous to those areas... even if they have had to be reintroduced.

atb Tim

Hi Tim, then why is it illegal to release these so called non indigenous animals be they deer or boar/pig back into the countryside. You can only release them in a fully fenced secure environment.

I would disagree with them being indigenous as they were released and so re-introduced and not even pure boar being crossbred pigs.

It even states this in your post.


(i.e. within the range it occupies naturally or could occupy without direct or indirect introduction or care by humans) (IUCN Guidelines, 2000).

 

[paul k]

The first wild boar in the Forest of Dean were I believe pure bred East European boar, these escaped from a farm at Weston under Penyard in around 1997. There was another more recent deliberate release on the other side of the forest near Staunton and these did probably have some domestic pig in them, some early photos have a few distinctly "piggy" looking specimens. Whether or not these are indigenous could be argued either way, there were of course wild boar at liberty some centuries ago, so boar are indigenous to the UK but those currently at liberty probably do not originate from previously indigenous stock, even if pure boar, and some have domestic blood so possibly not strictly indigenous.

 

[paul k]

Hi Tim, then why is it illegal to release these so called non indigenous animals be they deer or boar/pig back into the countryside. You can only release them in a fully fenced secure environment.

I would disagree with them being indigenous as they were released and so re-introduced and not even pure boar being crossbred pigs.

It even states this in your post.


(i.e. within the range it occupies naturally or could occupy without direct or indirect introduction or care by humans) (IUCN Guidelines, 2000).

DEFRA were trapping and releasing boar back into the wild near Ross on Wye for a few years!

 

[timbrayford]

Hi Tim, then why is it illegal to release these so called non indigenous animals be they deer or boar/pig back into the countryside. You can only release them in a fully fenced secure environment.

I would disagree with them being indigenous as they were released and so re-introduced and not even pure boar being crossbred pigs.

It even states this in your post.


(i.e. within the range it occupies naturally or could occupy without direct or indirect introduction or care by humans) (IUCN Guidelines, 2000).

It is not illegal to release Roe, Fallow and Red deer into the wild. Wild boar are not listed by the non-native species secretariat as an alien or introduced species, the point that you are missing is that a native creature can be absent e.g European Beaver & European Lynx, the fact that you need a licence to release them into the wild does not stop them being indigenous or native to an area.

atb Tim

 

[finnbear270]

On a slight tangent here, but on the subject of illegal release; the R.S.P.C.A. should know better, & species / maturity / recognition skills are found wanting too:


FIREFIGHTERS fawn over a baby deer moments after rescuing the terrified creature from a stretch of Chester’s canal network.

A camera-toting colleague captured Woody Hurley and Gary Furmage’s softer side on Tuesday evening as they tried to warm the animal up.
They had received a call to attend the scene at Canal Street at around 6.15pm after passers-by spotted it floundering in the water. Station manager Barry Williams said: “When the crew arrived at the incident it was clear the deer was in distress and cold so two members of the team who are trained in swift water situations quickly responded to rescue the animal.
“They tried to warm the deer up as best they could with blankets before handing it over to a wildlife hospital and it is pleasing to see it was OK.” Staff at Stapeley Grange Wildlife Centre, which stranded animals in the county are usually taken to, were put on standby but RSPCA officers decided to return the fawn to the wild.

An RSPCA spokesman said the baby and its mother would most likely find each other quickly.
“The animal had a superficial injury but it was decided the best thing would be to release it back into the wild,” she said. “It should find its way back.
“It can be quite common for baby animals to need rescuing as they get into trouble while finding their bearings.”

 

[ELMER FUDD]

With respect to wild boar, Wild boar have now been added to Schedule 9, making the release of wild boar into the wild illegal. The change takes effect from effect from 6 April 2010.