Wild red gold medal

[cjm1066]

The Thetford roe are of German origin.

 

[VSS]

It's no big deal the reds near me are from park stock but they are much bigger than older wild stock.

There is evidence to suggest that the older wild stock were much larger than present day wild reds.

 

[Sheamus]

This one was just a few points short of making gold.

 

[Pete6.5]

There is evidence to suggest that the older wild stock were much larger than present day wild reds.

That doesn't surprise me with the biggest being shot over and over again in the wild. But I don't think wild stags were ever bigger than the the biggest park/farmed stuff over the world.
There were lots more bigger stags down on Exmoor in the past.

 

[Spear Chucker]

Or any deer.

I stalked a Soay ram in the wilderness of Oxford. The Fallow weren't playing ball at all. Very flat ground so we had to really work hard to get into a position (which he changed every time we thought we'd cracked it) where there was a safe shot. After about an hour and three quarters, I was wet through, bleeding like a stuck pig from scrambling through brambles and hanging myself up on barbed wire and blackthorn. Got him. I'll never forget him. Crafty devil he was. His head is on the wall by my front door and I look at him every time I go to work, great bit of taxidermy by Bill Cave. He may have come off worse in the end, but he made me pay for him through the nose. I'll work hard to beat that stalk, or the curry I made out of him afterwards.

 

[David Barker]

Your stags may be born and raised in the wild but they have park deer genetics in them.

Didn't the Park deer come from the wild herds? If an animal is born in the wild and comes from escaped farmed or Park stock it is still wild and subject to the constraints of living wild puts on them. Deer i was invited to shoot have been breed free of constraints of the park/farm for over 30 years and the park deer were put there in the late 1950,s from wild caught deer. So for the margority of there lives they have been wild with only a few years of mans manipulation forced upon them.

 

[Pete6.5]

Didn't the Park deer come from the wild herds? If an animal is born in the wild and comes from escaped farmed or Park stock it is still wild and subject to the constraints of living wild puts on them. Deer i was invited to shoot have been breed free of constraints of the park/farm for over 30 years and the park deer were put there in the late 1950,s from wild caught deer. So for the margority of there lives they have been wild with only a few years of mans manipulation forced upon them.

If you honestly believe that some wild herds that originate for escaped or released reds don't benefit in larger antlers or body's you carry on. Just to reiterate I don't think it's a bad thing I just think it's highly possible that they benefit. If I was to put some pictures of wild stags near me you would see they are massive and they have been wild for a while. (I won't put pictures up because the stags are hammered by people believing they have no impact on them )

 

[David Barker]

This one was just a few points short of making gold. View attachment 385583View attachment 385583

Truly massive and if it had been shot in scotland would have made gold.

 

[David Barker]

If you honestly believe that some wild herds that originate for escaped or released reds don't benefit in larger antlers or body's you carry on. Just to reiterate I don't think it's a bad thing I just think it's highly possible that they benefit. If I was to put some pictures of wild stags near me you would see they are massive and they have been wild for a while. (I won't put pictures up because the stags are hammered by people believing they have no impact on them )

They are massive because they get the best feeding and have good weather conditions. It has been tried in scotland and even recently Massive stags were taken up the west coast and released in deer fenced areas the deer were soon reduced in size and suffered greatly through the winter. The off spring were no different to the reds we already had after just two or three years.

 

[Pete6.5]

They are massive because they get the best feeding and have good weather conditions. It has been tried in scotland and even recently Massive stags were taken up the west coast and released in deer fenced areas the deer were soon reduced in size and suffered greatly through the winter. The off spring were no different to the reds we already had after just two or three years.

So why are the roe so poor on this great food?

 

[Pete6.5]

They are massive because they get the best feeding and have good weather conditions. It has been tried in scotland and even recently Massive stags were taken up the west coast and released in deer fenced areas the deer were soon reduced in size and suffered greatly through the winter. The off spring were no different to the reds we already had after just two or three years.

And that's not 100% true some estates in Scotland have benefited by introductions.

 

[Pete6.5]

Next people will be saying they can breed two Dartmoor ponys together and get a race horse out of it with the right food.

 

[Pete6.5]

Or on the flip side release a load of race horses in the wild with little to no other horses in the area and they will end up as normal nags in 50 years

 

[David Barker]

So why are the roe so poor on this great food?

Roe are completely different and will eat totally different food,s. Antler size in roe is not dependant on body mass to carry them. Anyway if you want an education in Roe deer there are better than me to educate u on here.

 

[David Barker]

And that's not 100% true some estates in Scotland have benefited by introductions.

Pete always only in the short term look at Ardnermuchan peninsula. Big Reds were put up there and soon started to fade and while they did produce bigger for a while the feed had to be increased they were let in to wooded fenced off areas to offer them good shelter from the winter. Why do you think the CIC offer a high medal for a lower score on the antler,s.

 

[Pete6.5]

Pete always only in the short term look at Ardnermuchan peninsula. Big Reds were put up there and soon started to fade and while they did produce bigger for a while the feed had to be increased they were let in to wooded fenced off areas to offer them good shelter from the winter. Why do you think the CIC offer a high medal for a lower score on the antler,s.

My last comment. So you honestly believe it's only about food and nothing to do with genetics from the original stock?

 

[gaza916]

Pete always only in the short term look at Ardnermuchan peninsula. Big Reds were put up there and soon started to fade and while they did produce bigger for a while the feed had to be increased they were let in to wooded fenced off areas to offer them good shelter from the winter. Why do you think the CIC offer a high medal for a lower score on the antler,s.

The CIC scoring is different between Scottish reds and lowland reds because they are a different phenotype. If they were the same then the score required to medal would be the same and there would be very, very few Scottish reds making the medal table as you can see if you compare the threshold scores at the link. The table for 2023 CIC reds can be seen here:

https://files.basekit.com/f9/d8/f9d8ae4b-d965-45d3-8974-d45bece7f602.pdf

 

[David Barker]

My last comment. So you honestly believe it's only about food and nothing to do with genetics from the original st

As always its about everything that makes them grow. Selective breeding on farms and on deer parks helps a lot as in the wild the largest deer only cover a few female most are taken by the lesser stags hovering round the edge. They can not be compared with Roe deer at all. Gaza916 the phenotype is only different because of the separation. The studies show that the genetics of most of Britain's deer is so diluted that the CIC Stance is not really credible.

 

[Hebridean]

As always its about everything that makes them grow. Selective breeding on farms and on deer parks helps a lot as in the wild the largest deer only cover a few female most are taken by the lesser stags hovering round the edge. They can not be compared with Roe deer at all. Gaza916 the phenotype is only different because of the separation. The studies show that the genetics of most of Britain's deer is so diluted that the CIC Stance is not really credible.

That’s an interesting comment, could you point me in the direction of the studies you are referring to that show the degree of dilution of genetics in British Red Deer