blaser.270
Active Member
I forgot about that,its the Blaser,the bestist stalking rifle bar none 
.308 or .270
- Thread starter drummerboy
- Start date
Jagare
Well-Known Member
What do you mean by runners? Well shot deer that run a bit or more wounded deer? If he wounds more he needs to improve his shooting skills. If the deer run a bit after a good shot, so what.
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Orion
Well-Known Member
Is he also shooting them in the same place then? Hardly a valid comparison if not.
Orion
Well-Known Member
Only if you can work out who left the largest pile of bones in their corner of the cave!
Only if you can work out who left the largest pile of bones in their corner of the cave!
Ah - but it's not all about killing. It's about being out there, communing with the mammoths, pitting yourself against nature. I mean, really, using a bow is unsporting - it's not really hunting unless you're close enough to feel its breath on you as you stab it with your pointy stick.
The gentleman mammoth stalkers looking down upon the bloodthirtsy mammoth managers; the kit obsessed armchair mammoth hunters who only got out once a year but spent all thier spare sea shells on new bowstrings and fancy camo loin cloths with extra pouches; the wizened old highland mammoth ghillies who still did their cow cull with the estate sling shot when no one was looking...
Orion
Well-Known Member
All that waste of time and energy - my ancestors were obviously tar-pit type mammoth hunters!
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Haha! Good humor. Since this has veered off topic, I will seize the opportunity to say that I could post photos of friends of mine who have hunted wild boar with dogs, and closed in to take them with a spear or knife, but I am hesitant enough to post photos of game taken with a longbow or recurve. Some French still hunt deer on horseback with hounds and take the stag with a spear.
ChesterP
Well-Known Member
I am sure the French use spears measured by the Napoleonic system.
Here, they are just made until they look right; no bother with measuring.
Back when all hunting was with muzzle loaders, the Germans carried hunting swords to dispatch game, to protect themselves, and to wade in and save a dog from a boar. One of my hunting books has a pretty humorous story about bear hunting with Wade Hampton on his plantation, by an Englishman who was visiting him. They pursued the bear on horseback through a big, dry cypress swamp, and then Hampton jumped off and dispatched it with a hunting sword. The Englishman, being on his first hunt, had most of his clothes torn off, but was unhurt.
Here, they are just made until they look right; no bother with measuring.
Back when all hunting was with muzzle loaders, the Germans carried hunting swords to dispatch game, to protect themselves, and to wade in and save a dog from a boar. One of my hunting books has a pretty humorous story about bear hunting with Wade Hampton on his plantation, by an Englishman who was visiting him. They pursued the bear on horseback through a big, dry cypress swamp, and then Hampton jumped off and dispatched it with a hunting sword. The Englishman, being on his first hunt, had most of his clothes torn off, but was unhurt.
Chasey
Well-Known Member
I have never had a head shot deer fail to drop on the spot with a 243 but then I use a ballistic tip so even off target shots will knock them flat. If you turned this fella over youd see why but its not pretty
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FrenchieBoy
Well-Known Member
Just to throw the brown stuff into the fan I have just come across this video on youtube. The chap in the video says he had to use numerous shots to bring down and kill a deer with a 270 and then says that the 270 does not have enough power (Total rubbish in my opinion) - I suspect that this was not so much because of any lack of power but more a case of his bullet placement being completely wrong - Could also have something to do with the ammunition he uses!
Watch the video and then offer your comments guys.
I should add that I use a 270 and have no complaints, and nor do any of the deer that I shoot with imy 270 get up and complain so I'm happy and I'll stick with what I have!
Watch the video and then offer your comments guys.
I should add that I use a 270 and have no complaints, and nor do any of the deer that I shoot with imy 270 get up and complain so I'm happy and I'll stick with what I have!
ChesterP
Well-Known Member
Ahhh, the dangers of t'internet and the power of the idiots with cameras masquerading as "experts". Best totally ignored...complete load of tosh which proves nothing and explains nothing.
FrenchieBoy
Well-Known Member
You have just echoed my thoughts - A 270 too weak to kill a stag humanely?
Even more questionable is when he tells us about killing the deer at 200 yards with a 20g Sabot Slug - 200 yards is a hell of a long way for any sort of accuracy with a Sabot shotgun slug unless you're one hell of a marksman - And if he is then why does it seem that he is struggling with bullet placement using a 270 for deer?
Even more questionable is when he tells us about killing the deer at 200 yards with a 20g Sabot Slug - 200 yards is a hell of a long way for any sort of accuracy with a Sabot shotgun slug unless you're one hell of a marksman - And if he is then why does it seem that he is struggling with bullet placement using a 270 for deer?
Orion
Well-Known Member
Maybe not so far back in the mists of time though!
You can still buy a rather natty selection of Hirschfänger/Saufeder long knives and pike attachments to dispatch the big stuff with: http://www.frankonia.de/search.html?query=Hirschfanger
And the boar dagger is certainly an essential piece of kit with the guys who work the dog packs (Matilha) in Portugal and Spain as they don't carry a firearm with them.
This bad boy had us scratching our heads as we couldn't see any sign of a bullet strike on it. Turned out to have been taken at close quarters on the knife by a young handler after it had made a stand against the dogs. I don't know who had the bigger cajones - the keiler or the lad!
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In my part of the world where red deer are hunted by 3 packs of Staghounds, it's a bit more mundane - the huntsman uses a short barreled .410 pistol to dispatch the bayed quarry.
Chasey
Well-Known Member
Mainly I use a 243 and the first fallow deer I chest shot with that caliber was with Willowbank on here and it ran about 25m into the woods before dieing using 100g Fed Power Shok
After this I shot six more deer, all chest shot, all droped within 5 yards of the point I shot them in the chest. Admitidly one roe and one Munti among them. All but one was with the Federal 243 Powershock and one was with a 75g Nozler BT (didnt do that again too messy)
Since then I havent shot anything in the chest its all been head shots with the 243 BT and the dammage it does to the head is prety epic so they have all collapsed on the spot
I dont know if its relevent but the first deer that ran was reely close about 30-40m and the buillet went right through cleenly so I thaught the velocity was so high the proper expansion hadent taken place
On Friday i christened my new 308 with a Fallow buck, head shot again with a 150grain BT at about 120m
Where as with the 243 BT id get a tiny entrance wound and massive exit or no exit and bulging eyes and liquid filled skull, the 308 blasted streight through with a 1/2" exit wound?
The shot placement was good (just below the ear) and it droped hard on the spot but I was a little concerned after that the 308s power and the reduced expansion of the 150G BT was leaving me a greater margin for error over the 243?
I dont have the experiance to reely comment but the physical evidance I was presented with on Friday did concern me.
Sadly I didnt take a close up of the head but if you zoom it you can see the exit wound
After this I shot six more deer, all chest shot, all droped within 5 yards of the point I shot them in the chest. Admitidly one roe and one Munti among them. All but one was with the Federal 243 Powershock and one was with a 75g Nozler BT (didnt do that again too messy)
Since then I havent shot anything in the chest its all been head shots with the 243 BT and the dammage it does to the head is prety epic so they have all collapsed on the spot
I dont know if its relevent but the first deer that ran was reely close about 30-40m and the buillet went right through cleenly so I thaught the velocity was so high the proper expansion hadent taken place
On Friday i christened my new 308 with a Fallow buck, head shot again with a 150grain BT at about 120m
Where as with the 243 BT id get a tiny entrance wound and massive exit or no exit and bulging eyes and liquid filled skull, the 308 blasted streight through with a 1/2" exit wound?
The shot placement was good (just below the ear) and it droped hard on the spot but I was a little concerned after that the 308s power and the reduced expansion of the 150G BT was leaving me a greater margin for error over the 243?
I dont have the experiance to reely comment but the physical evidance I was presented with on Friday did concern me.
Sadly I didnt take a close up of the head but if you zoom it you can see the exit wound
I see both exits are out through the offside jaw. Do you aim for the centre mass of the head when headshooting? It's a shot that I have never attempted.
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I usually heart shoot deer. Mainly a 120BT launched at 2950fps. It's a bit messy, sometimes they run, sometimes they don't. The 120BT, even if it is a bit messy, is a very flexible bullet. It has the power and construction to punch through a shoulder if asked to but also expands violently enough to guarantee an effective neck shot even if placement is not spot on the spine.
To get something a bit more gutsy for the hill and the Red Stags, where the 120BT is marginal outside 200yds, I have a 280AI shooting a 120TTSX at 3400fps. The bullet construction is very stout and happily holds together at that velocity. The round is very flat shooting and chest shot deer tend to drop on the spot. However, I wouldn't neck shoot with this bullet. Miss the spine and because there is no fragmentation you run the risk of a runner with a hole in it.
My favourite round when the requirement is neck shots only is my 6mm. 70 grain BK at 3500fps (only in England of course). The violent and complete fragmentation guarantees a large margin for error which I like. Downside is that you don't have the option of a shoulder shot if required, but you can put it through the ribs if need be.
I still have not found the bullet that you can shoot flat and fast, will fragment reliably enough to give a large margin of error on a neck shot but will also punch through a shoulder if asked to. It's all a compromise, hence the vast array of opinions on the subject.
ChesterP
Well-Known Member
I simply don't understand the constant fascination when shooting deer in the Uk to a "flat shooting round" because any heart/lung shot can be taken with any deer legal calibre to 200 yds with a 100 or 150yd zero and using heavier bullets. The POI really isn't that great at these distances so no compensation is really needed, just crosshair on and pull the trigger. Irrespective of calibre, bullet choice and bullet placement I'd guess are far more important. Something with reasonably high sectional density for larger animals at greater range (on the hill maybe?) to ensure good penetration as well as being a controlled expansion round, and perhaps for closer shots for neck/head, lighter bullets which will fragment more readily? Perhaps if target shooting at ranges from 300 to 400yds, then flatter shooting rounds makes things a little easier, as does higher velocity to buck the effects of wind, but barn-door sized animals with 6 inch kill zones at half those distances? The bullet may drop 3 inches at 200 yds, but the shot will still be just as effective.
palmer_mike
Well-Known Member
I'll keep my eye open for those barn door sized munties..........
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