lead ban, what calibre too chose?

[KimE]

If you reload, 7mm08, 7x57 is a happy compromise. Sensible recoil and better at longer ranges than a 308. I have never spoke to anyone who regrets owning either. Ammunition is becoming more of an issue with both though if you don't reload. So long as order it in plenty of time it shouldn't be an issue mind.
6.5 creedmore is more popular but in a recent survey in the US it was overwhelmingly the one calibre most people regetted buying. Nothing wrong with it, just underwhelming and dissappointing. The fanboys will never admit this but if you hand load and know what you are doing you can get more out of a 6.5x55 which is another soft recoiling capable round which would do the job for you.

A huge amount of 6,5cm are sold in US so of cause many can regret it.

 

[Heym SR20]

Pretty much my concern I would like too be over 100gr ideally however I've been told lead does not like to stabilize in 1/10 barrels for .243s and combined with the smaller than average barrel in terms of length it may not qualify for the energy requirement at 80gr for red deer regardless.

I dont own the rifle either as well, I have permission for it too be shared whenever I acquire my ticket but the actual rifle Is still his by all intended purposes, Its just for the sake of legality I can take it too stalk into something without any legal concerns.

I did verify our local gun shop does do test firings for rifles on there clay range so that's something I'll have too figure out.

Sol,

When looking for a rifle, first most important consideration is how it fits and suits you. We are all built differently and what works for me, may not suit you. As regards cartridges, all the common deer cartridges work, and all have options that work for non lead.

Don’t be swayed by fashion. Many are now using heavy target type rifles for all their stalking. Weight is good on long range shooting rifles that are carried 10 yards from the car to the shooting bench. It’s also useful in steam rollers. It is an utter pain when you are carrying a rifle up a mountain.

Keep the optics simple, and don’t get drawn into large target scopes with complex reticles and turrets and 30x zoom.

Once you find a rifle you like, cartridge choice is pretty much secondary. 243, 6,5. 7mm, 270 or 308 all work and all work well. And if you didn’t know cartridge was chambered you probably couldn’t tell them apart.

Look at many, test shoot as many as you can, go out with other stalkers and see what they are using. Take you time.

 

[Dunwaters]

Got any facts and stats on how many struggled?

I did. Had a K95 in 7x64R on extended loan. I just couldn’t get on with it, it was light and easy to carry but it kicked like a mule and was difficult to shoot consistently.
It looked great, but was definitely one of the most unpleasant to use firearms I’ve ever encountered.

 

[Thunderstick]

Is that homeloaded or factory? And if factory, what?
Looking for something to try in my .270

For factory try the 270 S&B TRGX 130gr. Tried them in 4 different rifles and they work well. A Little anaemic in 6.5x55 as you'd expect but bloody accurate. They have also all worked flawlessly over several hundred rounds. From roe to rutting reds and sika. Cannot fault them as far as factory non toxic. I normally home loads but tried these on the off chance and haven't bothered for when none toxic is required.

 

[Rob-E]

I only use copper, and have 3 Tikkas 243, 308 & 7mm PRC.

243 I’ve shot Muntjac, Chinese, Roe and Red Hinds using factory copper.

308 I’ve used copper less in and have taken Muntjac Roe and Chinese

7mm Roe and Red Stags

 

[Smellydog]

I did. Had a K95 in 7x64R on extended loan. I just couldn’t get on with it, it was light and easy to carry but it kicked like a mule and was difficult to shoot consistently.
It looked great, but was definitely one of the most unpleasant to use firearms I’ve ever encountered.

View attachment 465312

Thanks but that's not a 308, our chap John was on about 308.
But if we go with your experience that's one.
So we have so far one unpleasant experience from a light rifle, any more anyone?

 

[Heym SR20]

Thanks but that's not a 308, our chap John was on about 308.
But if we go with your experience that's one.
So we have so far one unpleasant experience from a light rifle, any more anyone?

I have shot 308s plenty of times. One a little short stocked Mannlicher Stutzen was the most unpleasant thing I have ever shot as it kick and scope smacked me in the eye.

But I have shot a friends Sako 75 stainless wooden stocked hunter plenty of times as well as Heym SR20. Both nice to shoot. The latter I probably wouldn’t notice the difference to my 243 if I was shooting it in the field, at a target yes, but in the field no.

When I first got my 7x65R it was uncomfortable to shoot - stock too short. Lengthened the stock and it’s absolutely fine.

Second most uncomfortable is another friends old Tikka 6.5x55 with the roll over cheek piece. Being left handed the sharp line of the cheek piece just hurts.

With any rifle, if the scope is too far back and clouts your eye its bloody uncomfortable.

 

[Jagged77]

I only use copper on deer, mostly reloads but also factory. .243 / .260 / 6.5cm / .308 / .30-06 / .300wm

My go to is .308 but I really rate the 6.5cm - soft to shoot and very accurate with reloads and factory.

 

[HonestJohn]

Thanks but that's not a 308, our chap John was on about 308.
But if we go with your experience that's one.
So we have so far one unpleasant experience from a light rifle, any more anyone?

It’s not just about unpleasant, but about being able to shoot a light rifle well, they don’t sit as steady on sticks or on a bag or bipod etc, they sway more in the wind, and have more felt recoil. If you’re a good shot and plenty of experience, a lightweight rifle can be managed, but, most will shoot better with a properly proportioned and balanced sporter rifle.

we don’t know the OP’s budget, if she likes modern or classic rifles, and if she is looking to reload. Her size and height etc, if stock needs shortening, it’s a lot easier to do on a wood stock for example, as many plastic stocks are not designed for changing the pad fixtures.

Too many variables unknown at this stage. Calibre and chambering really should not be the starting point of finding your new rifle IMHO.

A nice moderated Sako 75 in 6.5x55 in walnut with Sako powerhead blade ammo would make a lovely rifle for a lady stalker taking all U.K. species. If you get an allowance for 200 rounds, just buy in bulk and not worry about topping up every other week or month, which circumvents the issue of local ammo availability and reloading. Stick a Schmidt and Bender 6x42 on top.

 

[Smellydog]

they don’t sit as steady on sticks or on a bag or bipod

That's nonsense.

a lightweight rifle can be managed, but, most will shoot better with a properly proportioned and balanced sporter rifle.

That's a generalisation borderline contradiction.

we don’t know the OP’s budget, if she likes modern or classic rifles, and if she is looking to reload. Her size and height etc

Exactly and why you have no right pooping lightweight rifles and assuming a; the lady can't handle recoil and b; she needs all the help in the world to shoot well.

You need to go back to living in a cave for a while, you've gotten all to soft.
My daughter's and wife will shoot whatever I give them. They think that if a man can shoot it so can they, and they are fine shots, what they do not do is start biting their nails with worry!
If I told them what dodgy John says they'd just cock an eyebrow!

 

[25 Sharps]

The rifle Is a 16" barrel with a 1/10 (suspected) twist and stutzern, so there's not much options of changing it too allow it too be more copper-friendly, not too mention a quick look at the 80gr sako lead-frees I dont think it would make the joules too be legal here in Scotland, Its slightly under 1500 at the muzzle so well below by significant margin, and being 1/10 (I think, some context below) Its unlikely 100s would stabilize,

I've tied this rifle back too the legal case It was used in as evidence and Its mentioning It was previously chambered in 270 I'm well aware at the moment Its got a Steyr barrel In it so Its possible the twist might be different, potentially, also kind of why I'm not bothered regarding this rifle (Its not mine, though keep in mind) Its a collectors piece in its true nature, even If its a fantastic little rifle for myself and woodland stalking. If the lead ban ruins it Its still very much got a job else where.

I believe 308 & 270 are likely going too be the most easily acquired ammunitions here in our local gun shop, I've fired 270s and I've never had much problem with the recoil I feel like Its going too be slightly down too personal preference, I believe our RDF does some pre-purchase test shooting if your genuinely committed too purchasing something, so I guess my first stop would be there and see what he has on offer and what I find I shoot well.

Is it large deer legal currently?

In your situation If shooting factory then .308 or 6:5 creedmoor.

Reloading opening up the options of 6.5x55 or 7-08.

7-08 shooting a 120 gr bullet may actually be a really good option for you, but may need homeloading to get the best out of it.

Either way, the name of the game with copper is speed so don’t chop the barrel too short.

 

[HonestJohn]

That's nonsense.


That's a generalisation borderline contradiction.

Exactly and why you have no right pooping lightweight rifles and assuming a; the lady can't handle recoil and b; she needs all the help in the world to shoot well.

You need to go back to living in a cave for a while, you've gotten all to soft.
My daughter's and wife will shoot whatever I give them. They think that if a man can shoot it so can they, and they are fine shots, what they do not do is start biting their nails with worry!
If I told them what dodgy John says they'd just cock an eyebrow!

You suffer from Dunning-Kruger effect I’m afraid.

 

[Smellydog]

You suffer from Dunning-Kruger effect I’m afraid.

Thanks for your honesty John.

Impertinent and audacious as you may be, don't insult my home, even if it is a cave.

 

[Bowland blades]

Pretty much my concern I would like too be over 100gr ideally however I've been told lead does not like to stabilize in 1/10 barrels for .243s and combined with the smaller than average barrel in terms of length it may not qualify for the energy requirement at 80gr for red deer regardless.

I dont own the rifle either as well, I have permission for it too be shared whenever I acquire my ticket but the actual rifle Is still his by all intended purposes, Its just for the sake of legality I can take it too stalk into something without any legal concerns.

I did verify our local gun shop does do test firings for rifles on there clay range so that's something I'll have too figure out.

.243 1-10 twist is the norm , but you can get 1-8 in the fast twist option choice in Tikka ( i have one myself ) I have been shooting 80 grain ttsx but its just a bit fast for the Larger deer ( the bullet is ripped up pretty bad ) reducing penetration . Have some LRX comming to me in the longer heavier 95 grain to test . Though i could maybe reduce the velocity ( the LRX likely wont work in 1-10 twist .
Forget what you have done in lead ( regards killing deer DRT ) I normally shoot a 100 grain Ttsx copper even on big stags with my 260rem at 300 yards i expect exit on the far side of the beast in say ?

 

[Bowland blades]

Pretty much my concern I would like too be over 100gr ideally however I've been told lead does not like to stabilize in 1/10 barrels for .243s and combined with the smaller than average barrel in terms of length it may not qualify for the energy requirement at 80gr for red deer regardless.

I dont own the rifle either as well, I have permission for it too be shared whenever I acquire my ticket but the actual rifle Is still his by all intended purposes, Its just for the sake of legality I can take it too stalk into something without any legal concerns.

I did verify our local gun shop does do test firings for rifles on there clay range so that's something I'll have too figure out.

Thats 95% of time a load of trolop ! 1-10 is the std twist for .243 win lead , I shot 1-10 twist lead for decades previously some say 95 is better and frankly i never really noticed any difference 5 grains is a tiny amount of weight or length . Sometimes a rifle is fussy - but thats not that often ( though you might need to mess with jump or jamb depths

 

[Scarpa]

One thing that I did was handling a lot of rifles and then biying a one with an adjustable cheek piece. Depending on your build it can make a big difference when using a scope. Although there are some great add on cheek risers available if you prefer one.

 

[Sol]

One thing that I did was handling a lot of rifles and then biying a one with an adjustable cheek piece. Depending on your build it can make a big difference when using a scope. Although there are some great add on cheek risers available if you prefer one.

That's a good point too I've used cheek risers before but Is been a miniscule opportunity in my overall shooting career so far so I kind of forgot they existed, I at least get a more than reasonable picture through the .222 and small .243 but the large .243 I willingly passed up a really nice sized stag one night because Its just so bloody uncomforble we've considered moving the scope slightly on that rifle too make It a bit more friendly for myself.

That's another thing too In theory If I find something I like and the stock Is a little oversized there's nothing stopping me from getting it trimmed down, especially If it already has a built in recoil pad.

9/10 Stock size is the issue, weight Is bad too but logistically long as Its not hitting 10lbs Its more than feasible.

 

[Tim.243]

That's a good point too I've used cheek risers before but Is been a miniscule opportunity in my overall shooting career so far so I kind of forgot they existed, I at least get a more than reasonable picture through the .222 and small .243 but the large .243 I willingly passed up a really nice sized stag one night because Its just so bloody uncomforble we've considered moving the scope slightly on that rifle too make It a bit more friendly for myself.

That's another thing too In theory If I find something I like and the stock Is a little oversized there's nothing stopping me from getting it trimmed down, especially If it already has a built in recoil pad.

9/10 Stock size is the issue, weight Is bad too but logistically long as Its not hitting 10lbs Its more than feasible.

I get the weight part, however on the flip side your 10lb rifle could be putting a 150lb deer on the deck with a stags head weighing more than the rifle.
Re recoil being focused on the target then the 1/2 shots you might take will not be noticed as the focus is directed at the beast.
After the time you spend dealing with the deer all of the other stuff will be forgotten
There was a period when people were trying to save weight on pigeon shooting kit (in truth a few lbs) but would take 200 cartridges to shoot a 100 pigeons (weighing about 90lb) They shoot well and come back with 90lb of pigeons and 2 boxes of cartridges but saved 5lb (or 5 pigeons) lol

 

[Hunters moon]

Mine is lively with a muzzle break but with a mod it's a pleasure to shoot.. heavy barrelled remmy 700 though. I use a 223 for muntjac, non lead atm.. sooo much choice. Are you planning your DSC please? Sounds like you need good sound advice from not too many people to me.

I don't understand this notion that a 308 recoils bad.
It doesn't!

 

[Smellydog]

. Are you planning your DSC please?

Most definitely not.

Sounds like you need good sound advice from not too many people to me

I'm good thanks .