lead ban, what calibre too chose?

[hoodwink]

I don't understand the notion that a .270 recoils bad.
It doesn't. About the same as .308
But hey, everyone has their little prejudices.

@Sol, don't give up on the .243 if you're happy with it and comfortable using it. I have witnessed some good performance from non-toxic rounds in that calibre recently, on some fairly hefty fallow.

Here's a copper .243 bullet that I recovered from just under the skin on the "exit" side of a fallow, after a quartering shot.
It's mushroomed very well, not lost any mass, and hasn't pencilled straight through (as some shooters claim they do).

View attachment 465184

But it didnt exit!

 

[VSS]

But it didnt exit!

No, this one didn't.
Most have.
I have recovered just two copper bullets all season, both from quartering shots where the bullet has had to pass through a lot of deer body mass to get to the other side.
It's a good thing, occasionally, to recover a bullet as you can have a look at the way it's deformed, and even weigh it to see what the weight retention is.
I have also recovered two lead .243 bullets from carcasses this season.

 

[HonestJohn]

Light rifle was mentioned. As said, test and try, a short ‘handy’ .308 in a light rifle can be one of the most unpleasant and difficult to shoot rifles you will ever own. Whereas, a sporter weight 30-06 or 270 with a decent weight and barrel length can be a joy to shoot.

Don’t start your search with calibre.

As for .243, if you are shooting a short barreled rifle now, like 16”, not only will it be hard to make the legal velocities, but terminal performance will be reduced for sure.

If you love the rifle you have now, maybe rebarrel to 6.5??

 

[Smellydog]

They are snappy and muzzle flip when people have the wonderful idea of cutting them to 16”.

It’s like reading some US forums, “two seasons ago I drew an elk tag and shot it with a 300wm and xyz bullet, it took three shots to put down, absolutely terrible bullet, I don’t recommend it. First shot was a touch far back and at 650yds”

My last 308 was 20" no mod. It didn't flip or ever recoil snappy.

back in your cave!!

Explain?

 

[Smellydog]

308 in a light rifle can be one of the most unpleasant and difficult to shoot rifles you will ever own.

Totally misleading sweeping statements like this should come with a warning

 

[HonestJohn]

Totally misleading sweeping statements like this should come with a warning

Not going to take the bait, but many had struggled with a light plastic stocked and thin barrel in .308 that’s cut short for being handy and light, these ‘mountain rifles’ and blah will not balance well, can be very muzzle flippy, and when put on a day sack in a wind, will be hard to keep still compared to a rifle with more real estate.
There’s nothing magical about it, it’s just the way it is.

 

[HonestJohn]

Really, I think you will find all the 224" will become more popular and pricing stay the current bad.
22-250 has the same twist as 222 by the way.

Let’s wait and see..

22-250 can be made with faster twist barrels due to velocity, there’s a degree to which one can fast twist a .222 and have good results, according to my research and people I’ve discussed it with, including a leading barrel and rifle manufacturer. I’ll put you in touch, you can tell them they’re all wrong

 

[shbangsteve]

If you reload, 7mm08, 7x57 is a happy compromise. Sensible recoil and better at longer ranges than a 308. I have never spoke to anyone who regrets owning either. Ammunition is becoming more of an issue with both though if you don't reload. So long as order it in plenty of time it shouldn't be an issue mind.
6.5 creedmore is more popular but in a recent survey in the US it was overwhelmingly the one calibre most people regetted buying. Nothing wrong with it, just underwhelming and dissappointing. The fanboys will never admit this but if you hand load and know what you are doing you can get more out of a 6.5x55 which is another soft recoiling capable round which would do the job for you.

 

[hendrix's rifle]

No, this one didn't.
Most have.
I have recovered just two copper bullets all season, both from quartering shots where the bullet has had to pass through a lot of deer body mass to get to the other side.
It's a good thing, occasionally, to recover a bullet as you can have a look at the way it's deformed, and even weigh it to see what the weight retention is.
I have also recovered two lead .243 bullets from carcasses this season.

Id much rather recover a bullet on the opposite side of the shot than have it go through. At least if it's stopped, it's actually dumped its energy in the animal!

 

[Smellydog]

Let’s wait and see..

22-250 can be made with faster twist barrels due to velocity, there’s a degree to which one can fast twist a .222 and have good results, according to my research and people I’ve discussed it with, including a leading barrel and rifle manufacturer. I’ll put you in touch, you can tell them they’re all wrong

Where did I say anyone is wrong?

Getting a fast twist for a 222 is no different than getting one for 250.
The necks are similar lengths.

What was your cave comment about??

 

[Smellydog]

Not going to take the bait, but many had struggled with a light plastic stocked and thin barrel in .308 that’s cut short for being handy and light, these ‘mountain rifles’ and blah will not balance well, can be very muzzle flippy, and when put on a day sack in a wind, will be hard to keep still compared to a rifle with more real estate.
There’s nothing magical about it, it’s just the way it is.

Got any facts and stats on how many struggled?

 

[HonestJohn]

Where did I say anyone is wrong?

Getting a fast twist for a 222 is no different than getting one for 250.
The necks are similar lengths.

What was your cave comment about??

Not quite as easy to get good non toxic performance in .222

Cave - being backwards

I

 

[Smellydog]

Not quite as easy to get good non toxic performance in .222

Cave - being backwards

I

So that probably means a 223 will struggle as well?

 

[Smellydog]

Cave - being backwards

If years of experience means questioning a whipper snappers comments makes me a caveman then so be it.
I'll take that over bull**** any day, thanks

 

[MTheaded but happy]

My plan is to swap the .243 for a .223 for muntjac (if the blurb is correct) and switch to copper in the .270
Can't help you with weight as I like the T8 on the .270 which makes it heavy, look as light weight mods and clip on by-pods in your savings plan.

Why 223 , the 22-250 would be more like your beloved 243 ? Nothing wrong with the 223 , just curious .

 

[Smellydog]

these ‘mountain rifles’ and blah will not balance

Every lightweight rifle I have owned balances perfectly well.
In fact it's the heavy buggers that don't balance well needing aids to shoot.

 

[HonestJohn]

So that probably means a 223 will struggle as well?

No they’re fine

 

[Smellydog]

No they’re fine

But they run at similar velocity. From my 222 reloads they do anyway

 

[HonestJohn]

But they run at similar velocity. From my 222 reloads they do anyway

I’ll have to dig out the information later, but SL were very adamant about the .222 being a waste of time to try and work well for non - toxic. Away now to go eat some good food

 

[Smellydog]

I’ll have to dig out the information later, but SL were very adamant about the .222 being a waste of time to try and work well for non - toxic. Away now to go eat some good food

And they are?