Out of Season Red Stag- Scotland

[DL]

acted within the law




the only one not defending himself is the one who started the tread.
sorry guys but seems like this so called cull is laughable.
as stated i will make my apologies on proof of damage and prevention....
three nices stags jumped my fence ate the cud and then i shot them as they ate on my trees...


Remember the boy that cried wolf

Hmmm

Originally posted by centralbeltstalker
as i am new to shooting and don't know all ailments i spoke to one of the other knowledgeable members

Just a suggestion, but before you pass judgement on someone who's been doing deer management for a few years, maybe you should do some full on deer management yourself.

Culling deer in Scotland is hard, and respect is owed to the people who perform it.
A lot of members of this forum make very little time to post, because they are actually out shooting deer.

I always look for the best in a new members posts, but yours are a bit much.

 

[centralbeltstalker]

well, appreciate your comments, i agree i am new a member and the posts may not be to your liking.
i would say however that nothing has actually been said outright regarding this to warrant your slam dunk on me.
as a new member and a fresh face to shooting i may have a different outlook/perception to what happened and also a different perception to the clause used in this cull seeming as we still are calling it that.
i would also assume you have not read all the treads.
i would also bring to your attention culling deer may be hard but because i work all week and have time to plod on here does not mean i don't actively stalk.

this is not a slanging match and as i have stated, if you read the treads, i apologised if i mis-interpreted the facts.
facts may i add that we still have not seen. i am not saying nor is anyone that all actions need to be justified but if you post something then take the slack. been there seen it...

Oh sorry for taking an active part in the site i will calm down for you.....
ps sorry for delay getting back to you but i was stalking deer.... if you look about i posted a picture

no offence taken just stating my case mate.

frank

 

[Paul at Fechan]

Why are some people sounding like vegetarians? Deer management is about just that, deer management. So if you have lawful authority to cull deer and there is a need then how does a date boundary have anything to do with active management. Culling females at anytime carries an element of welfare responsibility and out of season is a hated chore but it is occasionally necessary.

If you're going to shoot deer and call it management then you need to accept and be prepared to cull when necessary like with weak or injured beasts at any time including beasts out of season when there is a need. If you don't then you're just a recreational stalker playing at it.

 

[centralbeltstalker]

Why are some people sounding like vegetarians? Deer management is about just that, deer management. So if you have lawful authority to cull deer and there is a need then how does a date boundary have anything to do with active management. Culling females at anytime carries an element of welfare responsibility and out of season is a hated chore but it is occasionally necessary.

If you're going to shoot deer and call it management then you need to accept and be prepared to cull when necessary like with weak or injured beasts at any time including beasts out of season when there is a need. If you don't then you're just a recreational stalker playing at it.

Hi Paul,

not a veggie i assure you ha ha. Do you know why the red stags season is as it is....
Pm me and i will let you know what i was told......

i shot a doe two weeks ago and i was gutted due to the dates... she was most probable pregnant.
WHY, she was injured and suffering. I used the law of animal welfare and carried out correct management....
I mentioned the fact and displayed the photo to justify. Not for self gratification but for some form of justification for doing it. That sir is the issue here. nothing more.
I know some whose motto is, brown its down, now is that management or annihilation.

I once went to a meeting with forestry and Bds rangers and others about peri-urban deer.
I listened to what was a discussion about wiping the deer of the planet rather than live with them and say its for their safety. Others on here where in said meeting and can back that up...
I disagreed with the panel and stated as much. why should we clear out deer when we encroach on their habitat. although that is off topic it does show there is two sides to the story.

just because its within the laws doesn't necessarily mean its morally right...
a few months later and i would be jumping up and down for a stalker who bagged these fine beasts.
I just don't think this was the right decision morally.

I, as others voiced that we where not 100% convinced of the motives hence thats why we call this a forum.

cheers mate frank
ps i am not a barrack room lawyer


forum [ˈfɔːrəm]
n pl -rums, -ra [-rə]
1. a meeting or assembly for the open discussion of subjects of public interest
2. a medium for open discussion, such as a magazine
3. a public meeting place for open discussion
4. a court; tribunal
5. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) (in South Africa) a pressure group of leaders or representatives, esp Black leaders or representatives
6. (Historical Terms) (in ancient Italy) an open space, usually rectangular in shape, serving as a city's marketplace and centre of public business
[from Latin: public place; related to Latin foris outside]

 

[bogtrotter]

This guy is getting a lot of stick, for shooting 3 Stags out of season, he has done nothing wrong! he is allowed by law to protect his crop.

A lot of people don't like out of season shooting, but a lot of the time it is necessary to prevent crop damage be it agricultural or forestry, thats deer management.

What is deer management, its maintaining a sustainable deer population for a given area while keeping damage to a minimum.

What its not is strolling round with a rifle shooting a beast when it takes your fancy, thats recreational deer stalking and there is nothing wrong with that, just don't kid yourself that your managing the deer population.

Some of us with large areas to control have to resort to out of season shooting from time to time.

I will now stick my head above the parapet and wait for the outcry[I can take it] some are making a big thing of the fact that he shot 3 stags out of season my largest out of season cull was 47 stags in one day in a young forestry block [ had already tried to get them out by other means] now it was not stalking nor am I particularly proud of it but it was a job that had to be done.

 

[bambislayer]

This guy is getting a lot of stick, for shooting 3 Stags out of season, he has done nothing wrong! he is allowed by law to protect his crop.

A lot of people don't like out of season shooting, but a lot of the time it is necessary to prevent crop damage be it agricultural or forestry, thats deer management.

What is deer management, its maintaining a sustainable deer population for a given area while keeping damage to a minimum.

What its not is strolling round with a rifle shooting a beast when it takes your fancy, thats recreational deer stalking and there is nothing wrong with that, just don't kid yourself that your managing the deer population.

Some of us with large areas to control have to resort to out of season shooting from time to time.

I will now stick my head above the parapet and wait for the outcry[I can take it] some are making a big thing of the fact that he shot 3 stags out of season my largest out of season cull was 47 stags in one day in a young forestry block [ had already tried to get them out by other means] now it was not stalking nor am I particularly proud of it but it was a job that had to be done.

Here here

as said, only 3 stags, it'll fill his freezer with meat and by preventing anymore damage he'll have fruit in Autumn, a well balanced diet.

 

[centralbeltstalker]

By the grace of god I am glad I call myself a recreational stalker...

I never understood what been a deer manager was or been in deer management meant.

I am almost clear now.
There is more but I would be thrown out....
I do wish to remain as one or two have some interesting things to pass on.

f.

 

[Amberdog]

I realy find it sad that some have such a strange critical veiw on these stags been taken, All is within the law so no problem i would say its the right move again its down to your personal veiw just like shooting does in march ................no body said managing wild deer was easy i class my self as a recreational stalker and i have taken on a large cull i would have no problem with out of season tickets if i needed it.
Wayne
Amberdog

 

[Ewich]

Like the majority who have posted, I don't have a problem with Ballibeg taking three Red Stags out of season on his own enclosed land to protect his trees - it is his land and he is legally entilted to do so!

I have taken Red Stags out of season on enclosed land for crop/tree protection, as have many others in Scotland, and will do so when necessary in the future.

 

[MJ75]

This thread is hillarious. There are some really ignorant, naive and opinionated peeps posting away on here! Thanks for making me chuckle for the last 10 minutes. The haters don't sound envious at all! lol

The OP did nothing wrong legally. People who insinuated he was "being economical with the truth" didn't break the law either, but you all come across as a little bit silly, and quite possibly envious. Do you not reailse that the legal actions of the OP are none of your business!? I hope if others ask for advice on here that people will be more helpful in providing hard facts rather than their unwanted opinion.

Best
MJ

 

[corky]

adding my own personal opinion also is that there is no problem with the stags being taken, he was fully entitled too and like everything else in stalking /deer management if its legal and safe the decision is up to you at that moment unless you are pressurised to take action by an owner etc where the general opinion would be"if you dont do it i,ll get somebody that will"and i would put money on a recreational stalker,if he was offered the chance would do it despite moaning when somebody else was carrying out the same thing!There is that many folk after ground nowadays that you have to keep your landlord happy otherwise one of the many people on the moral high ground would soon jump off it to get a bit of shooting!

 

[jamross65]

Eh, to be fair to the man, the wording from memory is actually 'marauding deer on enclosed land'. I don't think someone has to wait until they actually experience damage. It's protecting an investment. He is obviously a stalker if a member of this forum and no doubt weighed up the situation.

I have no doubt if asked, any one of us here would have done the same thing if faced with loosing ground on being asked to do so by the landowner. Respect our quarry yes, but there was no welfare issue here regarding hinds with young at foot. And it was legal.

 

[centralbeltstalker]

This thread is hillarious. There are some really ignorant, naive and opinionated peeps posting away on here! Thanks for making me chuckle for the last 10 minutes. The haters don't sound envious at all! lol

The OP did nothing wrong legally. People who insinuated he was "being economical with the truth" didn't break the law either, but you all come across as a little bit silly, and quite possibly envious. Do you not reailse that the legal actions of the OP are none of your business!? I hope if others ask for advice on here that people will be more helpful in providing hard facts rather than their unwanted opinion.

Best
MJ

i would suggest that you take another ten minutes and read all posts rather than those that agree with your view.
no one says he did anything illegal unless i missed that,
i didnt see any where any mention of law breaking either,
as for been jealous, nope don't see that that either,
oh and i didn't start the post he did so he asked us for our opinion therefore our opinions cant be called unwanted.
to be honest your post mocks the facts of what has been said and i think you, like some others have missed what actually is been said.
if you care to explain also, why people who have an opinion are silly naive and ignorant, that would be good . no point in having a forum then is there.

for the record i have never shot an out of season stag, if i was asked to for a good reason i would.

atb f.

 

[centralbeltstalker]

Eh, to be fair to the man, the wording from memory is actually 'marauding deer on enclosed land'. I don't think someone has to wait until they actually experience damage. It's protecting an investment. He is obviously a stalker if a member of this forum and no doubt weighed up the situation.

I have no doubt if asked, any one of us here would have done the same thing if faced with loosing ground on being asked to do so by the landowner. Respect our quarry yes, but there was no welfare issue here regarding hinds with young at foot. And it was legal.

member quote from this thread
On enclosed land the occupier may authorise out of season shooting of dear if causing serious damage to crops or timber. Shooting may only be done by occupier/his familly in daylight. If shooting is to be done by any other person they must be authorised by DCS.

also no mention of him loosing ground for not shooting them by landowner , from memory he owns the orchard?

 

[centralbeltstalker]

adding my own personal opinion also is that there is no problem with the stags being taken, he was fully entitled too and like everything else in stalking /deer management if its legal and safe the decision is up to you at that moment unless you are pressurised to take action by an owner etc where the general opinion would be"if you dont do it i,ll get somebody that will"and i would put money on a recreational stalker,if he was offered the chance would do it despite moaning when somebody else was carrying out the same thing!There is that many folk after ground nowadays that you have to keep your landlord happy otherwise one of the many people on the moral high ground would soon jump off it to get a bit of shooting!

corky,

if, your landowner tells you to take deer, when you know it to be illegal are you saying we should.

I for one would tell him in polite English with my Irish accent to ram it... thats not moral high ground

took me 9 months to get my fac i wont loose it for no land owner... i will get other land.

thats my view mate.

atb. f.

 

[corky]

centralbeltstalker,I could have worded my original post better,i see your point,no i certainly dont want anybody taking unsafe and illegal shots (under pressure from there landlord)!!as i said it was my personal opinion,and i know he said it was his own ground but i was making a general point about a situation many stalkers will find themselves in.With regards to illegal actions,if you have a written lease including being a member of a syndicate you are entitled to shoot out of season for crop, timber protection,etc anyone with a Tilhill lease clearly has this on there contract likewise if you are DCS authorised you can shoot out of season at your discretion of having a valid reason for doing so.I have both the Tilhill and DCS authorisations and i know i have a healthy respect for the deer as well and there is no way i would do anything illegal.I probably had exactly the same views as yourself 10 years ago but once you start doing a bit more than recreational stalking you have to adapt and move on and for the record i stop shooting any females at the end of february which is also my personal/moral choice.cheers Iain

 

[centralbeltstalker]

iain,
thanks for your reply and clarification of your position. i did not mean to insinuate that you would act illegally. sorry. and knew from you post you would not,. due to today's events i have consumed alcohol wish impairs my response so i will get back to you




frank

 

[calmac]

iv only seen it once when i slept in for work "the jeremy kyle show" reading this threat is like watching that show. . . its top class, you are all rite in your threads me personally if any red were coming onto my land and causing damage id prob done the same but on the other hand maybe i would have scared them off my crops, weather its rite or wrong as long as its within the law!!! i live surrounded by forests but in small village if i lived slap bang besides a wooded area and had expencive crops on my land and their was a good chance of them being damaged by deer id fence the area, lush trees & crops is just like dangeling a carrott infront of a donkey

 

[MJ75]

i would suggest that you take another ten minutes and read all posts rather than those that agree with your view.
no one says he did anything illegal unless i missed that,
i didnt see any where any mention of law breaking either,
as for been jealous, nope don't see that that either,
oh and i didn't start the post he did so he asked us for our opinion therefore our opinions cant be called unwanted.
to be honest your post mocks the facts of what has been said and i think you, like some others have missed what actually is been said.
if you care to explain also, why people who have an opinion are silly naive and ignorant, that would be good . no point in having a forum then is there.

for the record i have never shot an out of season stag, if i was asked to for a good reason i would.

atb f.

Only just read this post. I suggest you read the thread again. Some peoples certainly do smack of envy. Yes he asked for opinions, but I'm sure he meant opinions written in a civil manner. And whether you or anyone else likes the fact or not, his actions are no ones business but his own. If you dislike that, then tough! It's matters not to anyone.

Best
MJ

 

[GirlStalker]

I just love the red stag; saw my fist at the age of 5; shot one at the age of 8