The EU - friend or foe - in or out
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JabaliHunter
Well-Known Member
Because there are relatively few dairy farmers that produce the liquid milk that we drink. Supermarkets do pay more for that and not the headline prices that we read about. Most dairy farmers produce milk that goes into bulk commodity cheese, milk powder, etc. and that market is global and vastly oversupplied, hence the falling prices.
My knowledge of the second world war is pretty fair and I certainly dont need to do research to know what happened at the only island ever to win the George Cross, "To bear witness to the heroism " etc , nor the British lives also lost to deny Rommel clear and unimpeded re-supply routes from the mediterranean.
If your logic fits then Europe should allow Britain its renegotiation with thanks, for the efforts of another small island to liberate the entire continent of Europe with the USA and all the help from the Commonwealth.
My concern is simply that democracy is built around one person, one vote. The population of Malta is less than Barnsley - as the world now says,go figure and dont be partisan in your arguments.
You know I agree that those with such a dictatorial and closed mind should be ignored and I shall look at the controls on how to ignore you for the future.
It seems that anyone with a bit more personal knowledge on the subject seems to threaten your small world.
Done my first ignore on the list.
Least you made a descision one way or the other to vote on that one then
jimmyriddle
Member
You mean such as the least efficient will move on and the more efficient will expand? Isn't that the way of the (non-subsidised) world?
No, the farmers like myself that strive to expand will stand still in time and the smaller ones will go bust.
The likes of James dyson who has already bought 30.000 acres in the last 3 years will mop up all available land and farming will become industrialised much like supermarkets are now.
I'm not convinced that's a bad thing, I've worked in the uplands all my working life and have known some good, clean, tidy livestock men, sadly, the amount of dirty poor farmers on hill ground are a disgrace, the tenant on the estate where I work now is the very type that gives farmers a bad name, to be fair there's a lot of poor farmers in my ares, dead sheep laying for weeks on end, in grass fields within a few hundred yards from the farm house, black plastic bail wrap left where they're cut off the bail or piled up and left until the fields are cut, when there's enough dead sheep to fill a trailer they will be buried or driven out on the fell and dumped or buried, plastic mineral tubs litter our area and black bail wrap adorns fences, trees and hedges like prayer flags. Its not just this estate but my neighbouring keepers will tell you the same. The farmer here draws 90k a year in subs, was on two skiing holidays last year and has a new pick up every 2/3 years. Who checks up on the "missing" dead sheep? Surely there must be a paper trail? Two tags in the ears and no sale or knacker receipt, how do they get away with it? If bigger more efficient farmers take over and farm in a more tidy manner, I know there's no guarantee but the bigger boys around here seem to be much more on the ball, then good radiance to the ones who have become reliant on hand outs and treat the uplands like a cross between a dole cheque and a dumping ground.
jimmyriddle
Member
It's a bit of a different story around here, land fetches upwards of £14.000 an acre, most the small boys have sold up, I am pretty sure I could run my business as a charity as it is pretty much non profit anyway, if I get a good year I can pay of some debts but at the same time kit needs changing.
Single farm payment makes up 59% of land owner income.
Also do you boys expect industrialised farms will let you go stalking on the estates free range, imagine the health and safety and risk assessments they will want doing. Every puddle will have a wet floor signe in it!!
Single farm payment makes up 59% of land owner income.
Also do you boys expect industrialised farms will let you go stalking on the estates free range, imagine the health and safety and risk assessments they will want doing. Every puddle will have a wet floor signe in it!!
Pine Marten
Well-Known Member
Well, unless Yorkshire splits away. And Cornwall. Maybe London.
jimmyriddle
Member
Small farms don't rent they sell up or the farm is left to the next generation who doesnt want to farm and they just see the money and they sell up, Google what James dyson is doing in Lincolnshire buying up land left right and centre !
Some years ago, a local herdsman used to book an hour of overtime every evening watching the cattle that were near to calving for problems, and the recently calved cows to catch them bulling. His boss told him to cease the practice because. "We can afford to lose three heifers a years for what we're paying you in overtime". A mean tight-fisted farmer? NO, the manager of a Home Office prison farm, a civil servant with a string of qualifications in agriculture. That's what it will be like if/when we become part of the UESR.
As a Scottish farmer I have absolutely no idea which way to vote. I have no faith in anything that comes out of either Hollyrood or Brussels other than it means more beurocracy, red tape and hoops to jump through for bog all return from farming alone. I can't envisage coming out of the eu will cut any red tape as Holyrood and Westminster need all the control they can muster.
But was told at college the purpose of the EEC was primarily to ensure that WW1 and WW2 and their like could never be repeated.
When our prices fall we are reminded we are in a global market. When our costs rose we were reminded it was due to the price of oil, well those particular costs haven't fallen proportionally with that of oil. So would remaining part of the EU really be that influential? After all from a farming point of view we are more influenced by what happens globally as in drought or bumper harvests or consumer tastes as in what the supermarkets dictate.
Perhaps we should be looking to who may be the next American President may be as that may have a greater bearing on UKs prospects. After all if Trump gets in can't see any appeasement with ISIS etc let alone a trade agreement with Holyrood going well.
Whatever happens there will be turmoil till market forces prevail and its up to farmers, businesses etc to adapt to survive and grow..
apologies for the ramble, but in the words of Private Fraser we are probably all "Doomed" irrespective of what way we vote.
But was told at college the purpose of the EEC was primarily to ensure that WW1 and WW2 and their like could never be repeated.
When our prices fall we are reminded we are in a global market. When our costs rose we were reminded it was due to the price of oil, well those particular costs haven't fallen proportionally with that of oil. So would remaining part of the EU really be that influential? After all from a farming point of view we are more influenced by what happens globally as in drought or bumper harvests or consumer tastes as in what the supermarkets dictate.
Perhaps we should be looking to who may be the next American President may be as that may have a greater bearing on UKs prospects. After all if Trump gets in can't see any appeasement with ISIS etc let alone a trade agreement with Holyrood going well.
Whatever happens there will be turmoil till market forces prevail and its up to farmers, businesses etc to adapt to survive and grow..
apologies for the ramble, but in the words of Private Fraser we are probably all "Doomed" irrespective of what way we vote.
jimmyriddle
Member
I feel sorry for you mate your royally f****d as I am presuming if and ime pretty certain when the uk leave the Euro Scotland will want another vote to leave the uk. And for certain they will gain independence then not sure how well it will get on trading it's beef and lamb through a non Eu country the whole thing will be a big mess
I would not be so sure about that. The economic case for indy is even more shaky than it was back in 2014, and few folk want to vote for something that will lead to a decrease in their living standards.
Whatever happens you just have to make the best of it.
No body wants to have a decrease in their living standards, quite the contrary. But ever since I can remember we have been trying to cut costs, become more efficient, diversify etc. Farming has changed immeasurably in my 48 years and will probably polarise into massive agribusiness or part time. Irrespective of how we vote life will go on and after a few years will it make that much difference?
Sh*t happens only the depth varies.
No body wants to have a decrease in their living standards, quite the contrary. But ever since I can remember we have been trying to cut costs, become more efficient, diversify etc. Farming has changed immeasurably in my 48 years and will probably polarise into massive agribusiness or part time. Irrespective of how we vote life will go on and after a few years will it make that much difference?
Sh*t happens only the depth varies.
countrryboy
Well-Known Member
I'm not just so sure that the big farms will become the norm.
Down my way it seems to be the large and very large dairies that are pulling the plug and stopping milking (althou keeping there heifers hoping milk price will rise then they can flood market again and f**k it for the poor boys slugging on with it the now)
Slightly further north of me u get into windmill country and it tends to be them buying up every scrap off land that comes up, quite good farmers anyway but are getting such a big cheque fromthe windmills can't spend it quick enough, some have large numbers of windmills on there farms
Nz done away with the subsidies a while back and say best thing that could of ever happened, struggled intially thou.
If farmers were getting a fair price for there produce and no subsidy so stop Joe public moaning.
Seemingly that letter written in support of europe, a lot of the businesses have recieved vey very large ammounts of european cash so not just farmers that are subsidiesed the way some folk make it out
Down my way it seems to be the large and very large dairies that are pulling the plug and stopping milking (althou keeping there heifers hoping milk price will rise then they can flood market again and f**k it for the poor boys slugging on with it the now)
Slightly further north of me u get into windmill country and it tends to be them buying up every scrap off land that comes up, quite good farmers anyway but are getting such a big cheque fromthe windmills can't spend it quick enough, some have large numbers of windmills on there farms
Nz done away with the subsidies a while back and say best thing that could of ever happened, struggled intially thou.
If farmers were getting a fair price for there produce and no subsidy so stop Joe public moaning.
Seemingly that letter written in support of europe, a lot of the businesses have recieved vey very large ammounts of european cash so not just farmers that are subsidiesed the way some folk make it out
PointBlank
Well-Known Member
I find this website quite interesting just to see the enormous amounts of money that end up in the pockets of the already wealthy. Pick a large local landowner's trading name and see the result! Explore European Common Agricultural Policy farm subsidy payments | FarmSubsidy.org
You will have to go down the list as the same names are in there several times and it is obviously the sum of the entries.
A local one to us which I believe berg and MS shoot over has received €6,759,191.72 up to 2013
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