UKDTR call out details and shot site information.

[woodmaster]

I don't understand all this animosity! I'm sure UKDTR will be the first to agree the whole concept of "official" tracking teams within the UK is in it's very early days, with many interested parties looking to see how the concept evolves.

UKDTR may not be the perfect answer to the issue of deer welfare and a hunters obligation/desire to resolve these problems, but they are one of very few. At least these guys are showing both commitment and vision.
I'm sure others have and will continue to resolve things in their own way, that's fine.

But why this constant critism of what in my eyes is a posative and sensible approach, which will hopefully result in many years that it becomes normal to seek help in what could otherwise turn out to be a weapon for others to use against the shooting community.

Let's help if or where we can, or at least not hinder.
Just for clarity I have no axe to grind with anyone, just a desire to see people succeed where they are putting alot of energy.

 

[cookingfat]

What? Pass on what info there is a want with you chaps. I don't need to clarify any thing mate. This is Scotland we can go a get any deer we feel is wounded with out worry. Like I said you need to look at your own laws and put both cases forward or change your name to EDTR

for your info Davie,
when we set up our handler training course last year I did ask the question about entering FC Scotland ground and this is the reply I got

Tony,

I am the Deer management Officer for the Mid Scotland area.

The answers you have been given by Norman and Jamie would apply equally to the National Forest Estate in Scotland.

To try and help with nomenclature, the Forestry Commission land in Scotland is called the ’National Forest Estate’ (Public Forest Estate, in England). Our recreational stalking leases are called ‘Deer Management Permissions’ (Deer Control Licence in England). Vive la difference!

Best regards

Colin

so you see maybe things are not as clear cut as you may think,
as for cover in Scotland we now have a member in the Inverness area and another member who will take his test this year.
As woodmater says we are showing commitment and just trying to help when asked that is all.

Tony

 

[woodmaster]

Hopefully in time the FC in England will see that groups such as UKDTR are run in a responsible and professional way. Once this is more common place and there have been no issues, perhaps the FC will invite UKDTR or others to complete shooting tests or safety tests which will then allow recognised tracking teams to work on FC ground with a little more flexibility and ease. This will take time for confidence to build. In the mean time, all that can be done it work within parameters that the FC are comfortable with while cajoling them to show the way for the whole of the UK.

 

[countrryboy]

Richard maybe your asking the wrong people mate. Like I said I have been there done that and believe me if some one could do me with armed trespass they would. I got a call the following day asking how I got on and congratulating me on a good recovery. Maybe there just scared of letting you loose with a gun in the forest after your shooting test lol.
Like I said big country and if your going to call your selves UK then you will need to think like a uk organisation not just an English one.

Surprised ranger had to call u to find out how u got on. Thought he would of seen it when u took it to the FC larder for them


Like woodmaster says mibee in time the law can change south of border.

I bet then is FC pen pushers/desk jockeys in scotland that would have a breakdown at the thought of random stalkers going on Fc ground with no shooting test or DSC2.

 

[stone]

Richard maybe your asking the wrong people mate. Like I said I have been there done that and believe me if some one could do me with armed trespass they would. I got a call the following day asking how I got on and congratulating me on a good recovery. Maybe there just scared of letting you loose with a gun in the forest after your shooting test lol.
Like I said big country and if your going to call your selves UK then you will need to think like a uk organisation not just an English one.

Not about me
never has been
but find it strange you like to try and pick faults about a tracking org that offer their services for free that do what they can to help
even asked upon your services once but that was not that successful
lesson learnt there..thou I appreciate the effort the other guy made
but haters will always be haters no matter
good recovery for one of our tracking teams in the borders this morning and another call out that was deemed as a miss for another tracking team in Scotland
so yes
Your point was

 

[sikamalc]

Tony the Law is the law and I am sure you will agree that they are totally different in Scotland and in England. It is important the fore to explain that while crossing a boundary in England to dispatch a wounded deer could get you in bother in Scotland it is actively encourage. Deer welfare is paramount up here and put before greed and territorial stupidity. You chaps will need to change the laws or your aims will mean nothing.

I doubt that Deer welfare is paramount in Scotland, that is one of the most sweeping statements I have seen on here for a while!

Deer is Scotland are treated in many instances very badly, its all about trees these days.

As to the petty squabbles again, I see no reason why both organisations should not share knowledge and companionship, not ONE up mans ship all the time. After all you are all striving for the same goals are you not??

This is one of the main reasons why I do not get involved with my dogs in these groups, besides not having the time as it is my job, I would gladly help any friend, and yes I have used my dog in Scotland and England and on all the species.

We have several organisations wishing to join this site, but as usual they are put off by the back room barrack brigade, which quite frankly I am getting tired of....AGAIN.

 

[mereside]

Not sure why we have been dragged into this Malc but since we have I will post. In Scotland under sect 25

Section 25 of the Deer (Scotland) Act 1996 exempts individuals from being guilty of any offences involving the taking or killing of deer at any time if it is done for the purpose of preventing suffering by:

• an injured or diseased deer; or
• by any deer calf, fawn or kid deprived, or about to be deprived, of its mother, or
• a deer which is starving and which has no reasonable chance of recovering.

If killing deer for the purposes described above you may use a firearm/ammunition that would otherwise be prohibited. Ref: Deer (Firearms etc.) (Scotland) order 1985 which details the legal weapons and ammunition combinations for the culling of uninjured deer is not applicable.

I have no issues going across boundary's in Scotland to end the suffering of deer or wild boar with a rifle, it matters not whether somebody has issues against this as the law says it is the correct thing to do.
in England this is not the case and have had to stop whilst being on the correct track to try and ask permission this is not always given and the track ends there, a real shame but the law is the law. One day hopefully this will come into line with Scotland.
We also have stopped posting for all the grief we get but I spend most of my time driving up and down the uk to help others, going back up to the highlands to do a talk with bds then back down to kelso, ps anyone loses a deer just pick up the phone and call as we are here to help everyone, one day the people who slate what we do will realize there is no hidden agenda thanks, Wayne

ps one thing people can really do to help in England is set up permission to cross boundary's before things go south so in the event we can carry on to a successful outcome

 

[6pointer]

Malc when I said Deer welfare was paramount I meant in the law not by the SGO you are correct deer are secondary in most cases.

 

[sikamalc]

Mereside, thank you for quoting the law, of which I am fully aware of. No one is dragging anyone into anything. It would appear that people on this thread have managed to do this without any help from me.

I care about dear welfare, and if a wounded deer needs finding and dispatching then that is what we should all aim to do, whether we live in Scotland or England, Wales or Ireland. This bickering between two groups of people who have the same aims is ridiculous in my opinion. Some of you have been tracking and using dogs for many years, others have only just started within the past few years. None of this makes any difference to me as you are all aiming for the same thing.

What I am asking for is for less confrontational posts from members on this or any other subject, as this does not help your cause or promote what you are trying to achieve. Like I said we have at least ONE important organisation that was hoping to join this site. BUT due to certain unsubstantiated comments by individuals they have withdrawn for the time being. This is a loss to the site and its growing membership.

I for one will not be giving anymore room to these people and they will be banned, and will NOT be returning.

So gentlemen, why not try working together instead of against each other, you never know you may get to like it.

 

[Wildboar1973]

"....So gentlemen, why not try working together instead of against each other, you never know you may get to like it."

Very true said





Hard to believe, to read unnecessary discussions like this.... Sorry....

 

[mereside]

Malcolm the law was quoted for the benefit of anyone needing help, Davey is his own person and not in the UKSHA and my post was supposed to help thanks Wayne

 

[countrryboy]

But is it not just 1 person who's not in any of the tracking orgs just on the troll/wind up.

Amazing how something can go off at such a tangent so easily. None of his posts were needed or benefical or even really relevant to this thread

 

[mereside]

country boy he stated that going onto fc ground in scotland to track a wounded animal was ok unlike the original post which is incorrect by the law of the land why is that not relevant, I would say he could have worded things a whole different way but i can't help that

 

[countrryboy]

Aye fair point mereside.
It wasnae really clear that was his point and more like he just wanted his usual wind up and throw some insults about
I see he's/someone's been back and deleted/removed his posts too.

It is a shame when threads like this get needlessly derailed as ur both only trying to do the right thing and raise awareness too.

 

[mereside]

Thanks country boy, I only came on this thread to put things right, and saying you cannot enter FC ground to track or carry a rifle in Scotland could put people off calling and recovering wounded deer or Boar, we want to work with all organisations for the benefit of the game and people needing help that's all, maybe one day the FC will let tracking groups follow up properly everywhere but for now we have to work to what we can by following the law as it is on both sides of the divide, if only the uk was like up north, atb wayne

 

[X-bolt]

Guys we all need to work well within the law , and any clarification should be welcome , but what is totally beyond me and many other people , is why do we have to try and flex our muscles ? At the end of the day we are all working towards trying to located injured /lost beasts , if one association wants to go one way , and the other the other way , then get on with it ! But can't we work towards a common goal of animal welfare and trying to find the lost animals , ! My spelling and grammar may not show it , but I think most of the people slating each other left primary school a long time ago !

 

[cookingfat]

Details of tracking teams that can help should you ever need,
both ourself and the uksha' s details can be found here on the BDS web site Deer Recovery Register

 

[Wills]

Quick question: why use Bavarian mountain hounds? I would have thought German wire haired pointers or lab cross wire haireds wound have been more appropriate, especially for larger species. I have seen these work and are formidable especially when light is faiding and deer have dropped in dense conifers.. Even more so when the shot has gone a bit wrong.

 

[cookingfat]

Just a quick thank you to John Bradshaw gun shop and Iain Uglow today for hosting UKDTR's introduction to tracking and shot site demonstration,
also thanks to Clinton and Bob for doing all he bookings and sorting the deer bits for the shot sites

many thanks

Tony Lowry
UKDTR Chairman

 

[stratts]

Was a good day mate and nice to finally meet up with you and the other guys,

Cheers

Stratts