But if I shot a roe deer with a .20cal through say the lungs and you shot a red stag through the lungs with a .243 1mm difference in hole size, which would die first?
.204
- Thread starter cowsmart
- Start date
- Status
But if I shot a roe deer with a .20cal through say the lungs and you shot a red stag through the lungs with a .243 1mm difference in hole size, which would die first?
Essexsussex
Well-Known Member
I can't. I can't see it ever ending, tears or no tears....
straightpull6547
Well-Known Member
I'd say mungo's stag because you know little about killing deer
I kinda lost interest in the .20 cal question a while ago, but I do have a genuine question:
Would the expanded size of the .20 cal bullet and the expanded size of the .243 bullet still only be 1mm different? Further, given the difference in terminal energy of each, would the wound channel also only be 1mm different? Would be an interesting experiment with some ballistic gel. Bet it's been done somewhere.
(By the way, I don't have a dog in this fight as I don't shoot .243 either.
)
For some reason I can't post screenshots but in this study the author compares .223 and .243
http://www.rathcoombe.net/sci-tech/ballistics/methods.html
http://www.rathcoombe.net/sci-tech/ballistics/methods.html
Last edited:
sir-slots-alot
Well-Known Member
almost 300 posts - about a gun that doesn't even exist.
Personally I don't think this rifle will ever get built - if nothing more than because your choice of suitable 20 cal bullets now is limited to ONLY using a 55 grn Berger - the 50 grn bullet was dropped in 2012 so now not an option. The 55 grn Burger bullets are like unicorn sh1yte to find , they are very expensive and are notorious for their lack of expansion.
Then your going to have to spend upward of £750 to barrel in the 8 twist to shoot a bullet that is likely to be dropped soon anyway.
I looked at building a 20 cal several years ago to shoot the 55 grn Berger for varminting - however there were lot of stories of poor killing abilities , even on rabbits. A guy I know shot this bullet though a 20 BR and was getting rabbits picking themselves up after getting squarely hit. On the American varmint forums there was a lot of coyote hunters claiming bullet pass through's and coyotes running off.
Personally I don't want to badly injure any animal I shoot, therefore I dropped the idea .... you should do the same
Personally I don't think this rifle will ever get built - if nothing more than because your choice of suitable 20 cal bullets now is limited to ONLY using a 55 grn Berger - the 50 grn bullet was dropped in 2012 so now not an option. The 55 grn Burger bullets are like unicorn sh1yte to find , they are very expensive and are notorious for their lack of expansion.
Then your going to have to spend upward of £750 to barrel in the 8 twist to shoot a bullet that is likely to be dropped soon anyway.
I looked at building a 20 cal several years ago to shoot the 55 grn Berger for varminting - however there were lot of stories of poor killing abilities , even on rabbits. A guy I know shot this bullet though a 20 BR and was getting rabbits picking themselves up after getting squarely hit. On the American varmint forums there was a lot of coyote hunters claiming bullet pass through's and coyotes running off.
Personally I don't want to badly injure any animal I shoot, therefore I dropped the idea .... you should do the same
simonl
Well-Known Member
Such tests have been done endlessly, but I'm not sure there's much for 204, because (here we go again) it's only used for varmint and therefore the ammunition is only available for that. I've shot rabbits with mine & turned the insides into soup with no exit wound. I think that regardless of energy, going smaller & smaller in bullet diameter becomes progressively more unsuitable. Cowsmart wants to push the calibre envelope downwards - that in itself isn't necessarily wrong if a sensible approach is taken: Look up research, conduct tests in wet phone books or gel, review and share findings, etc etc. But no, he wants to use a legal loophole to obtain/use it & just splat some deer to to see what happens (LOL, ROFL, I'm doing it anyway so screw y'all etc). 'Splat' being the key word here, because that's what happens when you hit bone with a 204 in my experience. Hypothetically - If I had to shoot a roe with my 204 I would probably choose to head shoot with the fast expanding bullets but with the knowledge that it would do a marvellous job at taking the lower jaw off which would look great on facebook.
Don't think diameter is really a valid attribute to use in your comparison - cross sectional area is more important. Comparing 223 (legal) to 204 (not illegal, just pointless) the 223 has 21% greater frontal area. Turn that into blood flow rate & the percentage differences shoot up further. 243 has 42% more area than 204 but I don't think there's much merit in comparing them.
I believe the 243 was indeed initially pioneered by the varmint brigade but then was used on deer because bullets became available and it gained widespread acceptance. It's not valid to put it in the same category as the 204 with a pro-rata approach to deer size.
Cowsmart clearly has plenty of stalking experience. I just hope that his enthusiasm for this idea fades over time.
Last edited:
Don't know. But I do know what happens in the following:
Red stag shot with .308. 150gr bullet. Stag weighs 165kg. 18 joules/kg impact energy.
Roe buck shot with .222. 50gr bullet. Buck weighs 25kg. 41 joules/kg impact energy.
Both lung shots. By your logic, the roe deer should die quicker. It doesn't. It runs substantially further. There is a large body of data that backs this up: deer shot with the .22 CF rifles tend to run further and take longer to die. The raw energy calculations are not useful guides of what will happen.
As I said before: your choices are a varmint bullet that may well not penetrate deep enough to damage the heart/lungs enough to give a quick kill; or a hard bullet that penetrates, but leaves a tiny neat hole. I have shot roe with 90gr .243 bullets that were too hard, and which went straight through with minimal damage. I spent a lot of time crawling through gorse looking for them.
So why don't you apply for a .204 conditioned for Roe and All Other Legal Quary? Or are you trying to tell us the Any Legal Quary is good reason to possess any calibre you ask for?
Not true..ask any .222 shooter and they will say it dumps more energy and knocks more deer over than any other .22 cf...I would trust the .222' If a deer was on the edge of serious cover, over the .22-250. that is my personal findings shooting plenty roe.
Also dont forget the .222 was the keepers choice for many moons for red deer..before the shooting menopause ...
Ring BASC...ask them.....or ring police scotland..sod it email that guy the only other guy who does not yet understand the .204 is roe deer legal wants everyone to email....If it was illegal...by now every single prat with no brain would have posted 'see I told you so!!' but you and thrush (irritating vagina) are still harping on about legalities...ITS LEGAL
Hazzard a guess at popular...but I could be wrong......??
Bigboab29
Well-Known Member
222 is the ultimate roe deer rifle bar none!!! That is all!!!
If your FEO has told you it's legal, why do you say he would suspect you were on drugs if you applied for a .204 to shoot Roe?
- Status
Similar threads
