Sussex and the .243

[Orion]

Ads, I don't think there is an easy way to the end of your problem, unless you have the funds to get decent legal representation.

ft, I think there's a bit of a difference between your ongoing battle and Ads' situation because he already has the .223 on an 'open' condition for deer - therefore it should be relatively simple to bend them round to granting the .243 with similar conditioning as they won't have a leg to stand on if it goes further.

BTW. Big to you for pushing it all the way with your local plod. Keep us informed of how it goes and best of luck.

 

[njc110381]

I think the first consideration has to be the result of upsetting them. A lot of people seem to shy back from getting down and dirty with them and fighting them at their level but in my experience if you don't push a bit, you're not going to get anywhere. I've had a fairly short FAC career but I like to think it's been a fairly busy three years. I've achieved a lot in the time I've had it and more often than not, "no" was the initial response to my request.

It seems you may be getting somewhere now, but if not I'd go back to them saying that they have already given you the .223 for the smaller species of Deer and without land restrictions. That being the case you must be deemed safe to judge your own ground and responsible enough to shoot Deer humanely? Ask them if they feel that the welfare of Muntjac and CWD is not as important as the larger species? What other reason could there be that you could be trusted to shoot them but not Roe? Then go on to tell them that as an experienced stalker you feel this is extremely bad news for the smaller species who deserve as much respect as a Red Stag, and that you are extremely unhappy with the idea that they may be granting .223s for Munt/CWD to any old hillbilly who needs to take a potshot at these upcoming "pests"?

Rather than make the .243 out to be a big thing, point out where they've already slipped up and allowed something that maybe they shouldn't have if they didn't feel you were responsible enough to shoot Deer. Now that will make them look bad if it comes out in the wash, and I'd say it's next to impossible to take something away without good reason once they've allowed it!

When I asked for my .338 Win Mag they said that the energy was over the basic maximum military range limit so I couldn't have it. Once I'd pointed out that the .300 slot I already had was also over this limit with the average factory load and they'd worded that for "zeroing on ranges and land" then they suddenly gave it a little thought and realised that if they tried to remove it I had copies of my FAC to drop them deep in the slurry pit if they didn't play ball!

Don't worry about the future. They have a legal duty to process your application and if you stand hard and fast by the law and quote it all the way requesting refusals in writing they will soon realise they are fighting a losing (and potentially expensive) battle.

 

[Orion]

njc110381, good advice but personally I'd avoid any reference to deer welfare etc. as suggested.

Ask them if they feel that the welfare of Muntjac and CWD is not as important as the larger species? What other reason could there be that you could be trusted to shoot them but not Roe? Then go on to tell them that as an experienced stalker you feel this is extremely bad news for the smaller species who deserve as much respect as a Red Stag, and that you are extremely unhappy with the idea that they may be granting .223s for Munt/CWD to any old hillbilly who needs to take a potshot at these upcoming "pests"?

It's not within the remit of the firearms department to get involved in anything other than the administration of the Firearms Act, and to give credence to their dabbling in animal welfare etc. will only have the effect of letting them continue to base their ill thought out decisions on things that have nothing to do with them.

I think the OP has enough ammunition to get what he wants purely on FA grounds.

 

[ads03]

Cheers for all the advice guys I guess I will just have to wait and see how this one pans out now, but to be honest I'm feeling quietly confident (ever the optimist).
njc110381, is that you from t'other site, if it is cheers for the advice on the hornet, I'm now the proud owner of one and I just can't fault it, its just absolutly superb.
Cheers all
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[njc110381]

Glad to hear it's doing the job for you. It's a very under rated round these days because everyone wants all the power they can get hold of. They burn masses of powder shooting a 200 yard Fox with a .22-250, wake up the whole village with the boom and end up with what? The same dead fox that my Ackley can create with 9 grains of powder and a third of the lead! The little guns only struggle when you stretch the range and that doesn't need to happen that often.

On the other hand you just wait until you hit that Fox with the .243. Dead doesn't quite cover it!

 

[paul k]

This sort of behaviour by the police really winds me up! It is not only stupid but different FLOs are making up their own rules. Nowhere in the Home Office guidance is there any reference to mentors and DSC as being required, why not, because it would be stupid to let someone loose on foxes with a .243 and then require mentoring and certification to shoot a deer with the same kit, and on the other hand to allow smaller calibres on muntjac and CWD with no qualms or restrictions. You are either a suitable person to have and use a rifle or you are not.

I also agree that they should be discouraged from getting involved with animal welfare issues. I was once told by an underling at my local FLO office that I couldn't have a variation for boar on my .270 because boar didn't need culling!! They soon backtracked on this reasoning when I started to complain along these lines, the eventual excuse was off the record and was "the Chief doesn't want to be a groundbreaker on this".

 

[Taff]

FLOs make it up as they go along, one told me my son would need a DSC before they would grant a british FC he already had one from the ROI and had held a british fac before,when I told him he would not be doing it, he said the Cheif constable liked the course and would insist on it, I asked him to put it in writing, he refused and the ticket was granted. When I moved house the same FLO came and inspected the cabinets said everything was ok, but I did not seem to have used alot of ammo on my 243 ( i also have another deer rifle) so did I really need it, I pointed out that my ticket was 3yrs old and I had bought 60rds so that eqated to 50 deer with that rifle how many would he like me to shoot. On both occassions I contacted the cheif constable and received no problems after.

 

[ads03]

Another quick update,
Whilst filling the truck with diesel this morning who should pull up next to me? Yes you've guessed it, it was my FEO. Anyway after some plesantries we had quite a good chat and I think I have brought him round to my way of thinking!!! Its amazing what diference it makes when your face to face. So I'll be keeping my fingers crossed but things might just be looking up
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[Orion]

Did you manage to record it on your mobile?

 

[ads03]

No, but that would have been a cracking idea, must remember that for next time!!!!
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[ads03]

Right then I've now had my interview with my FEO, and to be honest it went pretty well!!!! He seems to be thinking the same way as me now . He has put my paperwork in with a note from him questioning why they are saying no to deer with the .243 when I've already got deer without condition with the .223???? So fingers crossed, but I'm now a little bit more confident that I might get the outcome I want without to much fuss and trouble. So for now I'll sit and wait and see what falls through the door.
I'll let you know of any updates.
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