223 vs 6mm vs 6.5

[User00033]

Aaron, IMO the easy answer is .223. Do the other two have a real world advantage over .223 at 300m? Probably not. If you're not worried about competing then .223 gives you heaps of options. If the 'odd chance' to shoot longer range comes up, then .223 is still a perfectly viable option, you've got to know your ballistics in just the same way as for any calibre. Twist rate is important with .223 of course, 1:12 or 1:8 depending on what bullet weights you want to shoot.

Out of the box .223 accuracy can be exceptional, especially in heavy contour rifles. A .223 semi-custom can be based on a rifle that's already super accurate. Here's what the Tikka T3 Supervarmint in .223 (1:12" twist) did on its first outing to our outback range in WA in March 2014. This was with an untested mid-range hand load, 24.6gr Win 748, Sierra 55gr Blitzkings, 2.25" OAL.

Target is at 300m. Light, gusty crosswind, ~5-6kmh. The wife is the shooter. Her first 3 shot group.... 1.2". That's ~0.37MOA from a factory rifle out-of-the-box without any load development. Its a brilliant varminting rifle, exceptionally accurate with all the loads we've developed since then, for lots of different types of bullets. The latest being the Nosler Bonded Performance. Would make a great base to start a custom build from. The beauty of .223 is the huge range of options you have in terms of rifles, barrels, bullets, powders, customising options, whatever. A heavy barrelled .223 has no real 'felt' recoil and makes long sessions at the range comfortable, cheap and heaps of fun.

The wife won by the way. As she always bloody does.

 

[Muir]

I love 223.... but I'm a real slut when it comes to new guns and I found a US distributor selling CZ 527 7.62x39 actions... the idea of a 6.5 Grendel immediately stirred the grey matter soup.~Muir

 

[buck732]

I love 223.... but I'm a real slut when it comes to new guns and I found a US distributor selling CZ 527 7.62x39 actions... the idea of a 6.5 Grendel immediately stirred the grey matter soup.~Muir

http://cz-usa.com/product/cz-527-american-rustic/ ready made

 

[activeviii]

300 yards! none of the mentioned. why? because at 3 00 you will get bored with them all as they will all shoot the fly off a donkey noob.

you will get bored shooting it and then want a change and be back here asking about other calibres and all will do the same grouping. i see it all so often out at the range.

for 300 yards, i would be looking at the smaller calibres, 204, 17 even. something that you have to think about, something that will not buck the wind like the 6.5mm. something that will shift 5" from shot to shot just because there is a gust of wind. something that makes you understand ballistics a little more.

i have a few kicking around. i use them on crows and squirrels in the next valley. i dont use them on a short range as there really is no point and it gets boring. i good friend of mine is having the same issues, he has a 6mmbr, shooting silly pin holes. so he had the 20practical built. thats where i would be looking, its his 400meter rifle, he still has to get the correct wind read and he still gets it wrong from time to time but he loves it as it makes him think and try make better wind calls. he is having a wildcat 17 made just as a 200mter gun. again, just to keep the fun in it.

223 case necked down to .204. you still use the 223 body die when needed but once fire formed a 223 bushing die with a 204 neck bushing. great fun to shoot, very accurate but you need the wind calls to be correct. perfect for 300 yards.

 

[308mate]

For something slightly out of the ordinary these days, but still very practical in a 'semi-custom' build, you might consider the 223's parent, the 222 Rem - a straight rebarrel of a 223 or 204 Ruger.

There is still some underlying interest in and appreciation of the old Triple Two amongst Accurate Shooter Forum members in the USA demonstrating that although maybe not up to 6PPC benchrest precision standards, it is allegedly a remarkably good performer in a well built modern rifle with today's match barrels. Components aren't an issue as both Norma and Lapua still make very good quality brass and there are more good lightweight 224 match bullets around than you can point a stick at. If I were doing this one for myself (and I have been tempted on occasions) I'd go for a 12-twist barrel rather than the original 14 to suit today's slightly longer 52/53gn match bullets.

Another off the peg model, but practical if you can find someone with a chamber reamer, is the 30BR. I'm doing this one for myself right now with a shot-out 308 Paramount TR rifle. Apart from the necking-up of a 6mm BR case, it involves neck turning and probably annealing too. Performance with 115-135gn bullets is remarkably good and barrel life is allegedly so high that nobody in the USA (where it's used a lot in Benchrest for Score and Hunter-Benchrest competition) knows what the actual figure is.

The standard reamer has virtually nil freebore being designed for ultra-short flat-base match bullets of around 118gn weight and fired in an 18-inch twist pitch barrel, but I've put a recycled 10 twist on mine. I'll try it with the as cut freebore, but if I find that too limiting, will have a gunsmith throat it out enough to take 150/155gn weight bullets. This practice isn't unknown in the US amongst those who are fans of the tiny thirty, but are using it as an accurate plinking and/or varmint cartridge.

For me it'll be a retired gentleman's (AKA old fart's) upmarket plinker and if up to it, 300 yard F-Class rifle too maybe.

Thanks for the input Laurie, very helpful info as always from yourself! I already have my old trusty (and slightly rusty) CZ 527 in 222 so I know what they are capable of.
I think it will boil down to what action I can find, a mate has a 7.62x39 CZ that he might part with... If I can get my hands on it I think I'll go for the Grendel just to be different if not then I can see an old remmy 700 getting a new life as a BR
thanks for all the help guys much appreciated

 

[308mate]

http://cz-usa.com/product/cz-527-american-rustic/ ready made

I contacted Edgar Brothers, they said the 6.5grendel wont be available in Europe

 

[big ears]

I contacted Edgar Brothers, they said the 6.5grendel wont be available in Europe

Typical

 

[ChesterP]

At 300 yds, anything would do, even 22LR for a laugh! I was shooting one recently at reactive targets to 400 yards. Not precision work but great fun. As Activeiii says, going for one of these higher BC competition-ready rounds will bore the pants off you the first day out at 300 unless you want to compete (in which case 6mm BR seems a no-brainer). If it's just a bit of fun, go for whatever you fancy, something a little different and something that will challenge you, otherwise you'll wonder why you bothered after spending out on it. Of course if you may get the opportunity to use one for stalking or for longer range work at a later date, that's a different matter. If stalking is on the cards and some later LR work might be on the cards, I'd be tempted to consider 260 Rem.

 

[308mate]

At 300 yds, anything would do, even 22LR for a laugh! I was shooting one recently at reactive targets to 400 yards. Not precision work but great fun. As Activeiii says, going for one of these higher BC competition-ready rounds will bore the pants off you the first day out at 300 unless you want to compete (in which case 6mm BR seems a no-brainer). If it's just a bit of fun, go for whatever you fancy, something a little different and something that will challenge you, otherwise you'll wonder why you bothered after spending out on it. Of course if you may get the opportunity to use one for stalking or for longer range work at a later date, that's a different matter. If stalking is on the cards and some later LR work might be on the cards, I'd be tempted to consider 260 Rem.

I currently own a 222, 6.5x55, 270, 308, a P14 303 and a K98 8x57 so stalking, foxing and long range targets are covered I just fancy something different and that doesn't use as much powder as the big cases. no one else in my gun club owns a 6.5 Grendel so I think that might be the winner

 

[ChesterP]

I currently own a 222, 6.5x55, 270, 308, a P14 303 and a K98 8x57 so stalking, foxing and long range targets are covered I just fancy something different and that doesn't use as much powder as the big cases. no one else in my gun club owns a 6.5 Grendel so I think that might be the winner

Sounds like a good choice in that case. Quite some collection!

 

[buck732]

I contacted Edgar Brothers, they said the 6.5grendel wont be available in Europe

Howa do one too.

 

[meles meles]

How about a Schultz and Larsen Legacy ? Schultz & Larsen | Legacy Rifle

Available in:
[TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="width: 50%, align: left"].222[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 50%, align: left"].223 1:8 twist rate[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"].223 1:10 twist rate[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"].300 BLK[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
and with the barrels being interchangeable collecting a full set of calibres won't take up too much safe space.