American powders

[Apthorpe]

Not exactly 2,4 DNT is also listed as a chemical in the relevant Annex to REACH. DNT is a major component of IMR4350 (extruded) and many other powders IMR and H powders.
It is not clear to me that any chemical is actually being outlawed but that reasonably expensive permission will need to be given for its use.
As others point out, it is unlikely that manufacturers will bother for the reloading market but quite possibly might if their powders are used on a sufficient scale in ammunition. What effect this directive has on the manufacture, movement and sale of loaded rounds and NATO ammunition of all sizes is unclear.
I wouldn't be especially surprised to find American powders still for sale in 5 years.

 

[Whitebeard]

What legislation is this not heard or read anything about it.

Ian.

 

[Edinburgh Rifles]

What legislation is this not heard or read anything about it.

Ian.

REACH : Registration, Evaluation, Authorisation restriction of CHemicals
REACH - ECHA

REACH is a regulation of the European Union, adopted to improve the protection of human health and the environment from the risks that can be posed by chemicals, while enhancing the competitiveness of the EU chemicals industry. It also promotes alternative methods for the hazard assessment of substances in order to reduce the number of tests on animals.

 

[CarlW]

It is interesting how difficult it is to get clarity on this. On this thread alone, there are three different interpretations (all from really smart people): (1) US powders are doomed in the UK; (2) the problem is only with spherical powders; (3) many (incl. stick) US powders are affected but the effects of the rules are likely to be less draconian than anticipated. Must be tough for importers to make investment decisions on such conflicting data, never mind the personal anguish of a high-maintenance, slightly-OCD and change-resistant amateur reloader...

I surrender.

 

[Andy RV]

I'll see what I can dig out on Dinitrotoluene tomorrow. DBP in ball powder is certainly on the nasty list as the UK MoD qualified a DBP free alternative for 5.56mm a couple of years ago.

 

[Whitebeard]

REACH : Registration, Evaluation, Authorisation restriction of CHemicals
REACH - ECHA

REACH is a regulation of the European Union, adopted to improve the protection of human health and the environment from the risks that can be posed by chemicals, while enhancing the competitiveness of the EU chemicals industry. It also promotes alternative methods for the hazard assessment of substances in order to reduce the number of tests on animals.

Yeah read all that but where does it say that US made powders are going to be prohibited?

Ian.

 

[shakey jake]

A few years ago in pestcontrol there was the biocide directive, meaning all pestcontrol chemicals needed retesting at manufactuers expense, for the common stuff no problem for the little used specalist stuff big problems either test at expense pass and increase price hughly or fail or dont test and with draw the products concerned. I think the americans would probably just right off the uk market short term.

 

[Edinburgh Rifles]

Yeah read all that but where does it say that US made powders are going to be prohibited?

Ian.

https://echa.europa.eu/documents/10162/16ed5c77-bf96-45d9-9d7f-b056689c46e5

Background document for 2,4-DinitrotolueneDocument developed in the context of ECHA’s second Recommendation for theinclusion of substances in Annex XIV


2,4 - Dinitrotoluene was identified as a Substance of Very High Concern (SVHC)according to Article 57(a) as it is classified according to Annex VI, part 3, Table 3.2of Regulation (EC) No 1272/2008 as a carcinogen category 21, R45 (May causecancer) and was therefore included in the candidate list for authorisation on 13January 2010, following ECHA’s decision ED/68/2009.


Use in propellants for gun powdersDNT acts as a stabiliser, flash and temperature suppressor in smokeless propellantsfor ammunition.
The role of DNT has also been described as (a) a plasticiser and (b)as a waterproofing agent (Technical report, 2010). According to the availableinformation some propellants may contain 2.5 – 17% DNT whereas others have aDNT coating (Technical report, 2010).The ‘pure DNT’ (95% 2,4-dinitrotoluene) is used as an additive in explosives, inpropellants for ammunition (military and hunting ammunition) as well as inapplications for which limited information is available, such as a fuel additive. DNT65/50 may also be used as a component of explosive materials (Technical report,2010).From the information available it is most likely that dinitrotoluene is not transformedduring use in the manufacture of explosives and ammunition.There is no clear explanation why one grade of dinitrotoluene may be preferred overanother one. A suggestion is that the different grades have different freezing pointswhich might lead to the use of different technologies and applications (Technicalreport, 2010).

The fact that US powder predominantly use 2,4 DNT is well documented
As EU companies have been watching this come down the pipe for 10 years the adapted and developed, I imagibe at considerable cost
We as a 3-5% market for US powder makers, are unlikely to drive that adaption

 

[mealiejimmy]

Yeah read all that but where does it say that US made powders are going to be prohibited?

Ian.

I think the basis for the story is that European made powders (Swiss RS, Viht) have already changed their formulation so that they don't call foul of REACH whereas the American made powders - principally Hodgon, have not and therefore still contain chemical(s) that fall foul of REACH.
As I understand it, the argument is that the UK/European market is too small for the American manufacturers to bother changing their formulations, and if that situation persists, then US made powders will be prohibited in the EU.

Cheers

Bruce

 

[stubear]

I think the basis for the story is that European made powders (Swiss RS, Viht) have already changed their formulation so that they don't call foul of REACH whereas the American made powders - principally Hodgon, have not and therefore still contain chemical(s) that fall foul of REACH.
As I understand it, the argument is that the UK/European market is too small for the American manufacturers to bother changing their formulations, and if that situation persists, then US made powders will be prohibited in the EU.

Cheers

Bruce

Good job we're leaving the EU then right? Right...!? We are arent we..?

 

[Edinburgh Rifles]

Good job we're leaving the EU then right? Right...!? We are arent we..?

pretty much every legislation will have the letters "EU" replaced by "UK"......

 

[stubear]

pretty much every legislation will have the letters "EU" replaced by "UK"......

Fully agree Ed, I cant imagine it being any other way. Its the quickest and easiest way to make the break (open Law.doc, find and replace "EU" with "UK", Brexit done), plus we're going to have to remain compliant with EU legislation anyway if we want any sort of trading relationship with them so...

 

[PeterH]

I suppose there will be a big boom in reloading as may US complete rounds that non reloaders buy in packs of 20 such as Hornady, Winchester and Federal contain these 'banned' chemicals?

 

[Edinburgh Rifles]

I suppose there will be a big boom in reloading as may US complete rounds that non reloaders buy in packs of 20 such as Hornady, Winchester and Federal contain these 'banned' chemicals?

this is the elephant in the room that no-one is talking about

much bigger section of the market is ammunition
Target shooters, not so much

.22 Ammo? predominantly US
Largely believed to be filled with Lil'gun or similar ball powder

CCI, Win, Rem, Fed

who knows what impact it will have as the penalties are significant

 

[sh1kar]

out of interest is there a similar issue with the compounds used in primers?
S

 

[Whitebeard]

So we are all going to die of cancer from reloading our own ammo! i really think this is making a mountain out of a molehill!

The latest EU attack on lead based ammo is of more concern


Ian.

 

[Edinburgh Rifles]

So we are all going to die of cancer from reloading our own ammo! i really think this is making a mountain out of a molehill!

The latest EU attack on lead based ammo is of more concern


Ian.

Not when you import a fantastic alternative with no downsides its not.......


For Sale: Fox - Lead Free Bullets .224 to 9.3mm In Stock - Introductory offer

 

[Whitebeard]

Not when you import a fantastic alternative with no downsides its not.......


For Sale: Fox - Lead Free Bullets .224 to 9.3mm In Stock - Introductory offer

Ah but it will be of concern when all 22LR is prohibited

Ian

 

[Edinburgh Rifles]

Easy
RWS and Eley

I am personally an RWS user. the subs run 100fps slower than Winchester/CCI etc.
No summer crackers and very accurate

 

[Whitebeard]

Easy
RWS and Eley

I am personally an RWS user. the subs run 100fps slower than Winchester/CCI etc.
No summer crackers and very accurate

So Eley and RWS dont use lead in their 22LR ammo??

Ian.